Seth Godin returns to the show to talk to Charlie about his new book, This is Marketing: You Can’t Be Seen Until You Learn to See. They discuss how Seth defines marketing, how changing the wording of your marketing can make a huge impact, and how to measure what’s working in your marketing. Seth also talks about what it was like to be invited to join an organization he was thrown out of a few years back.
[2:20] - When Seth was first on the show, he had talked about writing a marketing book. The last marketing book that Seth published was 10 years ago. He had started a marketing seminar, and was inspired to bring it to people as a book.
[4:05] - We’re in a revolutionary time where everything we know about marketing is completely new, but we’re still talking about marketing like the old way. The book is meant to be a relic that can be shared and discussed with others.
[5:55] - Seth was invited back to the Direct Marketing Association after he was kicked out for testifying against spam. It was nice, but the reason Seth does his work is to inspire others with his ideas and give them something to engage with.
[7:24] - Books are the foundation of our intellectual life. In an age of podcasts and online courses, books are a physical reminder of the knowledge contained inside. Seth makes the comment that his online courses seem to have a deeper impact on people than his books, but his books allow him to scale the number of people he reaches.
[9:40] - Marketers make changes - if you are bringing change to a community by hoping that people will hear your story and change their behavior, you’re a marketer. It is not all about advertising; it has to do with your posture in a community as someone who does work that matters for people who care. Seth redefines marketing as work we do to change our culture.
[10:55] - One simple word change can greatly impact your marketing. Instead of thinking of people as prospects, change that to “students”. Marketing then becomes about generosity, and how you can help the student get to where they want to go. This includes being open about what is best for the student - even if it’s someone else’s product - as well as invites awareness to how you can continue to evolve your product.
[13:50] - When it comes to artists’ marketing, you have to really think about what you’re selling. Artists aren’t typically just selling a painting; they are selling tension, emotion and status. It is a change that comes when your painting shifts from a hobby to a business. The ideas in the book are similar for non-profits.
[16:30] - Once you realize that you are a teacher and a guide, your calling can become more clear. As creatives and businessmen, it’s our job to get our work to the people who need it. You also have to be confident enough in your product that you feel comfortable charging for it.
[18:50] - Emotional labor and passion are related, as are authenticity and vulnerability. However, you have to be aware of how you are channeling these things into your product. As a professional, you have to show up even when you don’t feel like it; you have to be consistent in bringing emotional labor to the table.
[20:30] - Marketers need to talk less and do more. Generally marketers aren’t allowed to do, and the doers aren’t allowed to market. As marketers, we need to be in charge of customer service, the supply chain, finances, and product development - all of these things are marketing!
[22:24] - Digital sharecropping is a social media pattern that makes you cease to be the customer and now you are the product. The platform will try to sell you. Seth describes how he manages his social media platform to avoid digital sharecropping but still reach his audience.
[26:10] - Be careful about how you’re using your media and your marketing. There is a difference between conversion media and connection media, and there is a difference between direct marketing and brand marketing. Direct marketing is measurable; you wouldn’t want to try to measure your brand marketing. There is a distinct difference.
[30:30] - To build trust, you have to make promises and keep them. To build trust in your insight and wisdom is to have authority. We gain authority by describing our worldview to others and having it resonate. So for a podcast like Charlie’s, he is able to reach people with his own ideas and that’s how he influences his other product. For Seth, his podcast allows him to reach people on another axis of influence (in addition to his blog).
[33:10] - For a while, there was a group of people who felt like they needed to hustle, and they asserted that that is what Seth was also doing. That’s not his aim - he would continue to write and produce his podcast even if no one read them. He wrote them to share them with people he cared about.
[35:06] - For many authors, as soon as a book is finished they realize things they wished they would’ve included. For Seth, he is very happy with the result of his book.
[36:40] - Seth’s hope for readers is that upon finishing the book, they will feel responsible and empowered. The easiest way to begin is to make your audience smaller; this is the biggest and most instantaneous shift presented in the book.
[37:45] - Seth’s invitation for listeners: find people who do what you do. Sit down with a small group and tell each other the truth about your marketing. He presents some questions and discussion topics that you could present as a useful step forward.
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