Editor’s Note: This is a guest post from Marissa Bracke.
I’m exhausted. I spend more time trying to discern valuable, stand-alone content and content that’s pushed primarily to hoist an offer on me than I do enjoying the content. It’s as if someone coopted the watercooler for advertising space. What I’ve got is a bad case of launch fatigue.
The same streams we turn to for communication and connection are flooded by a relentless stream of products. It used to be that blogs were primarily vehicles for conversations and suggestions and general ponderings, and sales were confined to service or product pages. But of late, people use their blogs to ramp up their launches with a series of product-oriented blog posts… which is fine, except everyone is doing it, and everyone is feeling pressure to do it.
At the same time, we’re all leaning heavily on our Twitter networks (or being leaned heavily on) to tweet the living daylights out of every single product and service we offer. Which again is fine… except everyone is doing it. All the time.
The pre-launch blog post (and guest post) spree is the new mass email. It’s the blogosphere’s version of a press junket for celebrities. The twitter launchfest is the new flyer-on-every-windshield. It’s heralded as The Way To Succeed, so everyone does it. And if you’re not currently doing it, you’re feeling pressured to do so.
It seems that Launch Fatigue has set in, and entrepreneurs are feeling it, both as launchers and as audience members.
To launch, and to promote launches via blog or Twitterfest, is not inherently negative. The reason it’s heralded as The Way To Succeed is that it is, in fact, a good way to succeed.
What has many folks–me included–waving a white flag of launch surrender is the ubiquitousness and unrelenting, suffocating volume of it all.
If we’re all constantly launching, and we’re all constantly supporting one another in our constant launches, it stands to reason that before too long, our communication ports are going to be jam-packed with… launches.
And they are. From blogs posting about the author’s products to blogs posting about affiliate products to pre-launch tweets to mid-launch tweets to post-launch thanks-for-the-tweets… it’s all launching, all the time. It’s as if someone secretly replaced social media’s conversation and connection with a steady drip of infomercial and hoped no one would notice.
I’m noticing. I suspect I’m not alone.
Don’t fatigue me, bro
As an audience member, it’s easy to reach a point of launch saturation. You’ve gotten several emails from different people about offers–theirs and their affiliate partners’. You’ve been bombarded by Tweets with links to the same offers. You’ve been on teleclasses promoting the offers. You’ve read blog post after blog post touting the products. While part of you is thinking, “This must be a good product if it’s got so much momentum behind it,” another part of you is thinking, “I am so sick of hearing about this product, and it hasn’t even been released yet.” (Or, “I’m so sick of hearing about offers in general!”)
Part of the reason your audience subscribed to your blog or followed you on Twitter or signed up for your newsletter is that they liked what you had to say. They connected with you. They got value out of the conversations you lead.
It’s vital that we not inadvertently dismiss that core connection in our attempts to Never Stop Launching. We need to make room for the conversation that originally brought us together with our followers or friends or subscribers. And because the opportunities to launch and promote launches are plentiful (and increasing every day), it’s imperative that we consciously make room for that conversation so as to avoid allowing our launch fervor to squeeze it out.
If you know you’ve got a big launch coming up next month, then ease up on the affiliate pushes for a couple of weeks. If you’ve been pushing affiliate products every single week for the past month and a half, give your audience some down time before you start your Here Comes My New Product pre-launch blog post series.
Acknowledge that your followers/fans/friends/list members are getting walloped with offers. Realize that even if you really, truly believe that your offers are stupendous and vital, they are drops in an ever-more-quickly-filling bucket of offers being dumped on the social media sphere, and that what your followers/friends/audience may need more than anything–even more than your stupendous and vital and awesome offer–is a breather. A chance to converse with you with no subtext and no underlying launch timeline. An opportunity to read your blog without looking for the “buy here” or “sign up if you want to be the first one notified!” links.
What your audience might benefit most from is the chance to be people to you again, instead of just “audience” or “potential customers.”
The difference between you and an infomercial
You don’t have to stop launching. But pausing the push of products and offers in order to make room for that core conversation and connection to thrive is the only thing that separates you from being an infomercial.
Infomercials, after all, can be thought-provoking and personable. They can be humorous and timely. They can be useful and informative. What they can’t be is genuinely anchored in connection or conversation, because their ultimate, sole and unyielding purpose is selling you something. They cannot connect with the audience members as anything other than potential sales. Any connection with the audience is connection for the sake of sales, and as the audience we know that. There’s a tacit understanding that even if the infomercial host is likeable and engaging, they’re really just after our wallets.
If you never take a break from selling, you become an infomercial. You might still provide useful content and humor and a personable front, but eventually, your readers/audience will come to understand that it’s all surface, and that you interact for the sake of their money, not for the sake of actual connection. (And maybe that’s absolutely fine with you. That’s a business model too, and it serves some folks well. There’s a reason infomercials are so prevalent.)
But if you’re a connection-oriented entrepreneur for whom it’s important to maintain the connections and sustain the conversation on which your business is built, your interactions with your audience must sometimes be from a place other than The Launch. You must sometimes relinquish the dollar value of a few affiliate sales in favor of the perhaps less tangible–though arguably no less rewarding–value of connection for connection’s sake. You’ve got to interact with your audience as individuals and not as potential sources of commission or sales. Otherwise, you eventually become just a really talented infomercial host.
Launcher Fatigue
As creative entrepreneurs, the pressure to always be selling and never stop launching is significant. While many of us pay lip service to the idea of slowing down, simplifying and fostering our connections, we tend to jump at the chance to promote every launch within our network, fearing that if we don’t, the person launching will dismiss us from his network or affiliate program. We tend to view any downtime in our own creative cycles as space that “should” be filled with active promotion.
And then we collectively lament our exhaustion, yearn for a solution, and soon wind up promoting the latest manifesto on simplification or e-book about slowing down. (Wash, rinse, repeat.)
The pressure to promote, to launch, to hype the latest offering is never going to subside. A little of that pressure is good: it keeps us motivated, aware of the necessity of forward motion, and juiced for good opportunities. But too much of that pressure is stifling and fatiguing. Trying to work at the speed of that pressure is unsustainable.
The only solution is to draw your own line of when enough is enough, both for you and your audience. What’s enough for you and your audience might vary greatly from what’s right for me and my audience. But here’s a tip: If you’re feeling launch fatigue, your audience probably is too.
Draw your own line
Do you suffer from launch fatigue, either as bombarded audience member or as weary launcher? How do you draw the line and create space for conversation and connection?
Hi Marissa:
Wow, great observations. I am a marketing professional who’s currently in transition and over the past year, I’ve gotten my feet wet using social media tools. I don’t sell any products online, but you can bet I’m taking notes to see how other people are promoting themselves and their products and services. At times I do feel overwhelmed at how much I’m getting sold to. At times, I feel that its all about “me me me.” Other times, I am amazed at others’ generosity and support.
But I’m grateful for the fact that you brought up the importance of connection and community on our blogs. After all, I think that’s why social media is so popular. It does a great job bringing us together. Thanks again for a great post!
I agree with you that the generosity and support out there is amazing. I think that makes it harder, sometimes, to draw that line of “enough” for our audience, because we’re genuinely eager to support the people in our circles when they launch products, and we’re genuinely excited to share our creations with others. It’s such a matter of striking a balance, and (as Charlie points out below) that balance varies from person to person and audience to audience.
But you’re so right: the support and the true generosity people offer up on a daily basis is humbling and amazing. I appreciate it on a daily basis!
I feel it too. And I’m really not sure what the solution is – especially as far as promoting each other’s launches goes, because this is where the launch bombardment grows exponentially.
On the one hand, we all know how important social proof is to sales conversion and if you’re in business and this is your livelihood, you want to make sales (you’re not just doing it for connection and conversation. And let me add that I think this is okay). And I think, as much as we might not admit it, we all look around to other people for their recommendations when it comes to buying stuff. And having a launch where so many other people are talking about your launch must be great for business – both sales and general tribe-building. So rubber-stamping and promoting each other’s offers isn’t going to go away.
I got to thinking the other day that the internet feels like it’s become a really small place – like high school. And, just like in high school, there’s the few popular people that everybody knows and talks about and what’s to be friends with. And if one of those people says they’re your friend, suddenly you’re in there and everyone thinks you’re awesome. I think the fatigue is partly coming from the fact that we’re hanging out in a very small circle of the internet and forgetting that the internet is actually a vast place.
Lately I’ve become interested in how I can expand that circle and find some new voices and join a more diverse range of conversations. Maybe that diversity will tone down the launch fatigue a bit (on both the launching and being launched on sides), I’m not sure…
The high school analogy is one I’ve felt too. Part of what really amplifies that sensation is the implied pressure to jump on the promotion bandwagons when they happen, or the fear that if you want to give your audience a promotion break during a week that happens to coincide with a Big Name’s launch, you’ll be shunned from that Big Name’s inner circle of affiliates/friends/blog mentions. It’s tough: if you promote Person A’s launch, and then opt not to promote Persons B’s launch, is that the equivalent of not inviting Person B to sit at your cafeteria lunch table? Or if you promoted Person B’s last product but opt not to promote the next one, did you just inadvertently remove yourself from Person B’s after-school hangout zone?
There is an element of “small world” concerns that parallel high school. And you’re right that the solution isn’t crystal clear. I think your point on expanding the circle is tremendously smart: it’s simple but not often remembered, and it has such potential for enhancing our business lives in more ways that just different launch venues. There are a lot of really cool folks doing really cool stuff out there… if we can nudge ourselves out of our “lunch table safety zones” enough to explore them.
Thanks for being a part of the conversation with me on this. I value the insights!
I think both Cath and Marissa hit this point perfectly. We’re all hanging out in our little incestuous circles all the time, so no wonder we all hear about the same offers all the time.
And yes… the high school analogy is spot on. You want to be friendly and make your launching friends happy, but it’s tough if you’re always promoting and tweeting, etc. I am definitely in agreement with Cath that we need to expand our reach, not everyone we can connect with will be on twitter… actually a lot of the internet isn’t (believe it or not!). 😉
In high school I was a geek. I was offered a bid to join the cool kids towards the end of my senior year. I decided it didn’t matter to me and stuck to my friends and my values. Hey, I’m still doing that! LOL
Sucking up to the cool kids isn’t worth it. Money can’t beat the ability to say what you actually think and feel. Life isn’t f*cking high school. Let’s grow up and be adults here.
Screw the high and mighty marketers and their manipulative bullsh*t launches! Fatigue is freedom!
Me too, Cath —
Marissa smartly hit a nerve that’s been twinging ever since I got a flood of emails from different sources that all had the followed the same advice they got (to send a link email, then follow-up with an email of “oops-wrong-link-I’m-so-human” ilk, ugh!)
Your suggestion to widen the circle will certainly dilute the fatigue.
I loved high school, but Launch Fatigue is real. Thanks…
Ahhh yes… the “Whoops! Gotcha!” Marketing Ploy. I’d be happy to banish it to some unspoken nether-region of the internet, never to be heard from again. I’ll start a Facebook group about it. (No, I won’t. I’m kidding.)
I agree with you, though… there’s a model of marketing that has been used to varying degrees of success by many folks, but it’s being followed so closely by so many people that the tactics just feel overused. Perhaps we’re approaching a point where the model we’re relying on needs some shaking up? I’m not entirely sure what that would look like, but I’m curious to see how things evolve.
But in the meantime, I’m staying on the side of “no more ‘Whoops’ ploys”!
Where did these marketing models come from? Probably paragons of virtue in business, right?
Wrong. They were created by Eben Pagan (a success at selling misogynistic seduction courses), Frank Kern (busted by the FTC for an illegal chain pyramid scheme), and a whole circle-jerk of scammers, spammers, and cons. We don’t need to improve the business model of the con man but throw it out entirely.
Business is simple, but not easy, and has no guarantees. Provide a service that meets a need at a fair price. Be honest. Do what you say you’re going to do. Yes, be enthusiastic, but don’t gloss over things either. And actually care for the customer.
I saw this one most recently, within a week I think I got about 5 or 6 different emails for lists that I’m on and they ALL did the “oops wrong link” thing and double emailed their lists. I laughed all the way to the delete button.
There’s a word for these kinds of tactics. It’s called LYING.
Wanna know why consumers are jaded. BECAUSE THEY’VE BEEN LIED TO. Duh!
Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice…
I think this is spot-on: We have to grow the circle! On the “how” question, I’m about as clueless as the rest of you, though. My main idea would be to motivate peers from the offline world to join in. Be it as it may, we should work on this, that’s for sure!
One other thing: Responsibility by the people who are big already and will sale fine anyway. For example, I think the Empire Building Kit by Chris Guillebeau is a useful product, but I really hated the recent launch when everybody I like to read promoted it several times via Twitter and on their blogs. The same happened a few weeks earlier with Seth Godin’s Linchpin.
Sure, these techniques work for them, but they also suck if you’re reading a lot of people in this niche. Big time.
You smashed the nail on the head here Fabian.
Here is something I found interesting. I thought affiliate programs were mainly for people that are within the program, bought the product, and liked it.
I started to question the huge number of bigger bloggers pushing the empire kit. Like really? They went out and spent the $500 to see if the product was worth promoting?
Or do they simply know that a short post and fake testimonial will rake in a great bonus to buy the family a few ipads?
On May 18th, A bunch of bloggers lost social capital in my eyes.
This is one reason I didn’t email or post about it. I hadn’t seen the product. Knowing what I know from recent purchases of Chris’ info products, I expected it would be good, but I only Tweeted it a few times and posted a banner on my blog.
To see a bunch of posts from people that didn’t buy or see the product was a bit of a disappointment to me.
Trust me, I noticed you were not pushing it. And I believe if you were pushing it, you would have talked about the product long before the re-launch day. I mean the product had been out for a month or more and I can say with 100% certainty that no one was talking about it except for me. no one.
Great point Cath! I’m with you guys on that it felt like an off putting overload and yet, maybe we need to stop subscribing to newsletters from so many of the same circle?
This conversation is limited to a bunch of us who are following the same people – I’ll just bet there are 95% of peeps who didn’t feel this way cos they aren’t subbing in droves. So this is OUR thing, one we need to take care of individually rather than expecting others to do it differently.
A great wake up call and one that’s thrown up many Q’s about marketing, tribes & community as well as shown us what works for us – so now we can go out and do what WE resonate with rather than blindly following the “big-wigs”. Ultimately, where are we coming from?
If from a space of love, generosity and giving, you can’t go wrong. There IS a way to be authentic to yourself, and do it your way. Some have found it, so can we. @TiaSparkles
This kind of problem is easily solved with a little discussed marketing tactic: HONESTY.
If when people did launches they gave products out to bloggers and told them to HONESTLY review the product and include an affiliate link regardless of their view, there would be no jaded consumers, no cynicism, no launch fatigue.
Dear Marissa,
I agree, it’s tiring getting on Hootsuite every day and posting about my blog or trying to retweet what others are posting. And I don’t really see the ROI.
What’s a better way to do this?
Mazarine
http://wildwomanfundraising.com
Hi Mazarine!
The frustrating answer is, “It depends.” Which is true–it depends on how frequently you post, and on how your audience likes to interact with you/your blog, and on the kinds of social media interactions you enjoy… etc. But I know that’s not a particularly helpful answer!
I always suggest experimenting a bit. If Twitter alone hasn’t seemed particularly fruitful for developing the kind of relationship with your audience that you want, try paring down to just a few minutes a day on Twitter, and spending a bit more time on LinkedIn–giving high-quality, high-content answers to questions related to your knowledge base, sending a few messages each week to connections who are working on projects you find interesting. Or increase the time you spend visiting the blogs of the folks who follow you on Twitter or who comment on your blog–see what they’re up to and jump into (or start!) the conversation happening on their blogs. Sometimes you’ll get a surge of great new connections from your interaction on someone else’s website.
Also, check out the social media outposts (Twitter, LinkedIn, Facebook, etc.) of people you enjoy or whose businesses you admire (or just people you like). See how they use their social media stream: how often do they link back to their own site? How often are they chatting with others? How often are they having conversations that are pertinent to their business versus conversations that have nothing at all to do with their business? How are they using their LinkedIn page or their Facebook page–or are they using them at all?
You certainly should never feel like you have to follow someone else’s example entirely, but I learn a great deal from just observing how other people interact on social media. And just experiment. See what seems to work for you, in terms of bringing people to your site, but also in terms of what you enjoy.
I know it’s not a hard and fast answer, but hopefully it will give you some additional starting points!
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$147$47!!!Great post, Marissa! Thanks for having the courage to share it.
I’m glad Cath mentioned the third leg of this, and that’s the effect affiliates have on launch fatigue. Just this last week, I’ve received about 6 requests to promote different things, most of which I’ll have to turn down. I’m tired, so my peeps are tired, too.
Of course, the challenge to personality-based businesses is that, in some ways, you’re always marketing once you find your groove. You are your product and service, so the more you’re out gripping and grinning, the more you’re marketing.
Knowing that, we do have to draw our own lines. I very, very rarely promote my newest product while I’m out and about, but that’s largely due to what resonates with me and what doesn’t. Others – I’m thinking of Johnny B Truant – are much more open about their offers. The trick is this: I can’t be Johnny, and he can’t be me, but we both have to do what works for both of us.
As much as we can overdo the “right people” paradigm, we have to recognize that the people who are our right people will groove with our style, and others won’t. This slices both ways, since others’ methods would fatigue people who get me, but my methods might not be loud and clear enough for other people to hear them.
And this is why I say the simplest and hardest thing to do as an entrepreneur is to run your own race. ;p
Running your own race… so true, so important, so hard to pin down. (Therein lies a huge part of the entrepreneurial adventure!)
You touch on a very valid point: that in some ways, you’re always “on” the marketing stage. And that rubs both ways. In one sense, it means that you’re never entirely pressing pause on the “never stop launching” button. But in another sense–and this is the one I’m really noticing lately–it means you don’t have to always rely on blatant or full-out “launches” to grow and nourish your business.
Especially in the sphere of connection-based (trust-based / heart-centric / there are many different terms that are appropriate) businesses, that core conversation and connection is as much a part of your “brand” or your audience-building strategy as is a structured launch. Which means that it isn’t necessarily true that stopping the active “launch” equates to stopping the “never stop launching cycle”… it’s just a different part of the cycle. It’s the trust-building, get-to-know-your-audience, keep-up-with-what’s-on-your-right-peoples’-radars phase.
In other words, you don’t have to be “launching” in the traditional sense of the word to be building your business and gaining trust and credibility. In fact, some of the best opportunities for those facets come when we’re not in “launch mode.”
This entire conversation fascinates me (as may be evident by now!). Thanks for giving me a place to flesh it out with PF’s readers, Charlie.
Another smart take-away from Charlie’s comment and this post is that One’s “right-people” are also getting the same push from other who speak to that same “right-person.” In that way, of course we run into each other all the time in posts/comments/tweets: we’re interested in a subject and in ALL the best people sharing their take on that subject. SO — your target reader is also reading your colleagues/competitors in the same field… and getting all that push, too.
Yup, and I think you have to consider this when marketing a new product. Why not launch a little smaller? Really, what do these recent tweetbombs have to do with “permission marketing”? Nothing at all.
Biz idea for a coder: Maybe someone should develop an affiliate link blocker that will only show a link to each product once per day/week/whatever. This could make thing easier…
I would like to question the part where you say:
“You are your product and service, so the more you’re out gripping and grinning, the more you’re marketing.”
I can’t disagree more. You cannot be your product or service. I don’t believe your branding is what you do. If people believe that you are your product and service, they need to sit down and seriously think about why their doing all of this work.
If everything you do comes from your beliefs and reasons for being, you’re going to eliminate the fatigue or not feel it in the first place.
I do agree that you need to march to your own drum or run your own race. It truly is one of the hardest things ever and I believe it’s because of how we’ve all gone through the system. The fatigue happens when your mind is doing things and involved in events that aren’t aligned with your own purpose.
“in some ways, you’re always marketing once you find your groove.”
Wait, you mean you’re not just sitting around enjoying your 36 hours of non-work-week? 😉
Love this post, Marissa! As Cath said, I think going outside of our circles, whatever industry you’re in (not just blogging), is key.
In blogging, especially, readers know who your circle is, and support that circle by reading the blogs within it. Knowing this, going outside the circle to promote not only makes sense, but will ultimately bring in a larger market and audience.
On one of the blogs I read, I love that the writer reviews books and promotes people who are outside of his blogs focus. It introduces me to things I may not have known about otherwise, and I don’t see it across every blog I read, or in his genre, because he has made an effort to do something different. I bet it was uncomfortable at first… but the results, I’m sure, were powerful, for both him and the person he highlighted.
There’s a fine line between getting the message out and hitting people over the head until they are begging for mercy. I think this is especially true in the online space where the audience feels more connected and is actively engaged. I mean, sure, hit enough people, enough times and you’ll sell the steak knives… but at what cost, and are you sure your not losing a larger market in the process?
Would you mind posting the link to that blog? (Or emailing it to me?) I’m always on the lookout for folks who are taking a different tact and Doin’ It Right.
Totally agree on the fine line. (And love the steak knives metaphor!) And building on what Charlie and Cath said, that fine line will vary depending on the audience, and depending on the prevalence of the specific offer within that audience. In other words, it will always be a bit of a moving target: what feels like getting the message out this time around may well come off as hitting people over the head the next time, or vice versa. It’s a good argument for continually being alert to and receptive of audience and partner feedback on promos and launches. And steak knives. (haha!)
Hi Marissa:
Glad you like the knife analogy! 🙂
For the blog, the main one I had in my head is Fred Wilson – A VC. He is focused on the Start-up/VC world, but he brings in many other facets and is always up to a good challenge (as you can see from his most recent blog post).
He will review a start-up along side music he likes and books like “The Happiness Project”. All interesting to his readers, but not always what one may expect from someone focused on Venture Capital.
the link didn’t take, but you can find his blog here: avc.com
Thanks for sharing that link! I will definitely check out Fred’s site.
“If we’re all constantly launching, and we’re all constantly supporting one another in our constant launches, it stands to reason that before too long, our communication ports are going to be jam-packed with… launches.”
That’s the thing. There is a very tight, obvious network of folks who are not only selling their own products continually, but those in their clique-y tribes as well. And now I don’t know who to trust for a dispassionate, non-affiliate REVIEW of a product. Because there are about 500 key folks on Twitter and FB who all know each other and sell each other’s products…some of which I might buy if I thought I could get some honest feedback.
I have unsubscribed from newsletters and blogs because what was once fun and informative became a sell every-other-post/mailing. However, I do understand not all content can be/should be free. And I buy.
But who is going to risk telling Darren or Naomi or Danielle or Johnny or Pam or the Chris’s, et al, that their product is disappointing, stinks, was a waste of cashola? Not me. Not you. And certainly not their hundreds of fans.
So. Help me with the answer?
I love this point, and I’ve been getting more backchannel information about people airing this exact sentiment. It stands to reason that people are saying the same thing about some of my products, too, but I don’t know what they’re saying.
What I wanted to point out, though, is that there are voices in those circles who are calling people on their products. When everything is awesome, nothing is, and as hard as it is to say it, it is being said. Maybe not as much as it should, but there is some progress.
I’ve always liked Ali Hale’s reviews for this reason, as she tends to call it like she sees it. Some people have also asked me to review things I don’t like or that I haven’t thought were worth the money, so you may see some of that going forward. If we’re all choosing to remain quiet if we can’t say something nice, there’s a lot of people’s money on the line.
I agree with Charlie on this, and I’ve actually written a post that touches on this idea (…cue Charlie telling me to go on and publish that post!). I will publish a post on this soon, but offhand here are a few suggestions:
1. Keep an eye out for reviewers who give reviews with specifics: did she use/read the product, what did she love about it & why, what did she think was less strong & why, why does she believe this product can help her audience, who in her audience does she believe this product is best-suited for, etc. Reviewers who offer that kind of feedback on a product are more likely to be giving real, content-based reviews rather than purely friendship-based reviews. When you find someone who offers that kind of quality review, (a) let her know you appreciate it! and (b) point others to her site so that the conversation about the product can be informed by that kind of review too.
2. If you think a product really does stink or was a waste of money, check to see if the person offered a guarantee or refund of any kind. If he did, take him up on it. And bonus points–let him know why you’re taking him on his guarantee or refund in a specific and (preferably) non-angry way (e.g., “I was disappointed that your ebook promised to show me This, but only touched on the topic and didn’t give any real detail,” or “I thought this ebook would be for advanced WordPress users, but it was geared toward beginners, and the sales page wasn’t very clear about that.”).
3. Even if you don’t want to shout from the rooftops that a Big Name person’s product was disappointing, be fair and honest about your experience with that product when the topic comes up. Let your experiences with that product be a part of the conversation that’s happening, even if it’s not in a hugely public way. That’s not to suggest badmouthing for the sake of badmouthing, but if someone asks you what you thought of so-and-so’s ebook and you really thought it was disappointing and not worth the money, say so. You don’t have to publicly declare someone’s product a bomb; simply presenting a fair assessment of the experience you had with it, the pros and the cons, can be helpful to other potential purchasers and those who consider reviewing the product.
Man, I wish I read this yesterday, before I posted my very first affiliate offer/review post! I really have been enjoying the product, but I didn’t go into depth about it. I was basically trying to get it up by launch day and rushed it. I wish I had taken the time to write a more detailed post.
And I really appreciate your thoughts. I’ve had to unsubscribe to many newsletters because I am so overwhelmed with all the launches and selling. Sure, I opted into those messages, and although I’d love to buy all the products and services I see, I do not have the time or money for it all. I have to really focus on what my goals are and make sure that anything I buy will help me accomplish them.
Oh- I will! I have! Granted to none of the people you’ve mentioned here- as I’ve only ever purchased from one of them (and am super satisfied). I didn’t say ‘sucked’ per se- (I’m more of a non-violent communication-girl), but gave my thoughts as it didn’t not deliver what was promised.
I’m happy to give feedback. I think if someone’s willing to put something out there there you deserve to know how it is landing, what’s been valuable, what hasn’t been. I’d like to think the product is coming from a place of trying to help and that knowing how to help all the more would advance that goal.
Why wouldn’t people share if something was subpar or not what was expected? If it were me, I’d much rather hear from the person who purchased it than discovering this in other ways, a la the back channel. Don’t we owe that to them? To ourselves?
And right on! This is a conversation wanting to happen. Needed. Evolving.
Randi,
Thanks for saying this. I completely agree. This is what frustrates me with a huge number of ‘affiliates.’
I don’t even know if the product’s been bought and used by the person promoting it. A most recent launch made me question so much! Did all of these major popular bloggers decide to purchase the information product to see if it was worth promoting? I doubt it.
I said to myself: I would need to purchase and use the product before I go out promoting it.
And why did I start to question it all? I questioned it because not a single one of these heavy hitters talked about it before. Only launch day or the day before. These were not honest reviews, they were to take advantage of the large following they have already.
I would much rather find someone that’s bought the product, used it, acting on it, talking about the experience and making progress. Suddenly you see the product for real and not because of the infomercial being aired repeatedly.
I recently did this with a product and the owner of the product couldn’t even link to it or talk about it. And they even acknowledged via email, that they knew about what I was doing. I was creating a huge honest review and talking about progress resulting from their product and they gave it no attention what so ever. Okay, accept for a “thanks comment” on launch day. I watched the person link to all kinds of big blogger reviews all day long.
Blew me away! At first I was super upset and discouraged. But I turned myself around and I’m using it as my own motivation and it’s lit a serious fire under my ass.
“Why wouldn’t people share if something was subpar or not what was expected?”
Because we are in a cult of positivity, that’s why! How many posts are there in the personal development blogosphere about avoiding “negative” people in order to succeed? Must be millions!
“When everything is awesome, nothing is, and as hard as it is to say it, it is being said.”
Eric said it first here, folks!
http://beyondgrowth.net/conscious-marketing/overdosing-on-awesome/
I will.
Ali Hale did a great review of the Dojo. Naomi is always fair in her reviews actually…and I trust her for that.
I don’t know if Pam or Johnny or Danielle do reviews very often, but I can tell you that many of the big names promote based on a variety of factors that have nothing to do with the quality of the product.
You aren’t alone, which is why I see you stepping up and offering these reviews. I’d be more than happy to send you a copy of one of mine to get you started…not strings attached.
I’m late to the conversation (real life went a bit crazy for a few days) – but Nathan and Charlie, thanks for your kind comments about my reviews!
I’ve got a policy of not using affiliate links on anything which I don’t own (and I have to LIKE it too!) – and while I didn’t mind the Empire Building promotion around the ‘sphere, I ignored a lot of it, because I want an insider’s perspective not a “oh, Chris is cool, buy his thing”.
Naomi defended known scammer (busted by the FTC for running an illegal chain marketing scheme) from criticism on her blog. I don’t trust her for that.
Scammer Frank Kern that is.
Kelly this is awesome.
I’ve battled with this issue in the past. I am really questioning a lot of stuff that’s happening in this industry or arena.
One product I purchased from one of the super-stars you hear EVERYWHERE was okay, but I actually had to start emailing and messaging and DM’ing them about continuing with the content and getting it done. I felt as if maybe I was the only sucker that bought and they didn’t feel the need to finish uploading the content anymore.
I wrote about how I felt the inaugural group for the $100 business forum by Chris Guillebeau and Pam slim was a huge disappointment. I took a massive risk with this article. I won’t link to it here but you can find me and I’ll show it to you. Just not necessary here. The thing with the article was no one else said anything to me. Chris commented after a while and so did Pam. Was everyone else super satisfied? It would have blown my mind if they were. After I posted the review and disappointment, I started to feel as if I could be that person that gives honest reviews of articles and information products.
Chris went out of his way to make me a happy customer. So I posted an update post about the experience. I was refunded, talked on the phone with Chris and more.
I like his Empire Building Kit but the May 18th Re-Launch upset me greatly, even though I did make a couple sales.
I admit that I am questioning if I should talk about the issues that upset me regarding the May 18th EBK Relaunch or not. Seeing how much of a player Guillebeau is within this industry, I could be destroyed long before I even get started. It’s like office politics all of a sudden and if you speak up, you could become black listed and never get a promotion within the company. It’s that easy to be held back.
The only thing we can do is link back to our own values and beliefs. I did it. I said what the heck just happened on May 18? I stopped and mentally jumped into the polar ice water as if it was new years day again. I shocked my own system by going back to my notes on why I am doing everything I’m doing.
I’m in search of smaller bloggers, providing awesome value and linking as much as I can. I believe in the conversation and using my own blogs to extend the conversations via links.
But, back to the ‘who’s going to risk…” thing, I hear ya! It’s ridiculous.
I’m with you here, Scott. I also read your review and agreed on many points. The thing why I did not write about it, was that I was on a very spontaneous travel with little to no internet access during the course, so I couldn’t put in as much as I had wanted, neither.
Now, our talk about this may appear off-topic here. But in reality, it isn’t. It shows one of the major problems of the affiliate business. If things continue like this, trust will be lost. And I’m saying this at a moment when I am preparing my first steps into this business, too. But I see it as a huge responsibility, not as a cash cow.
Interesting your perspective on the possibility of upcoming gatekeepers 2.0. That said, the web is still the web. Do great things and people will notice. I still believe in this – I hope it’s not too naive…
I believe it all eventually comes out and the fakeness is realized. Do great things and people will notice. Continue to do great things and people will be loyal friends.
Frig, I love the term “Gatekeepers 2.0” LOVE LOVE LOVE IT! Getting me thinking and I need to write! so good man
We are finally waking up to the fact that hegemony replicates itself with a rhetoric of openness. How could we have been so blind!
“If things continue like this, trust will be lost.”
The future is now–trust is gone. The only way to gain trust is through honesty and integrity (real honesty, not projecting an image that appears honest). The only way to lose trust is through breaking trust! By lying, exaggerating, and breaking promises.
The solution is simple! Refuse to lie, cheat, and steal to get ahead. Period!
I’ve been thinking a lot about May 18th, as well. On the one hand, a lot of the players acted without knowing the other players involved – had we known who was involved and what it would be like, we may have tried different things. Maybe.
On the other hand, I made a lot of sales for it. A lot, lot more than I anticipated.
Of course, we have to make the best decisions with the information we have available. To lament about information we didn’t have is unhelpful; thinking about how to approach it differently going forward is.
Chris Guillebeau is clearly successful, but the sheer volume of ”˜good friends’ pushing his May 18 launch (at times in a poorly spelled, almost automated manner) led to a level of repulsion on my part and certainly an immediate lack of interest in his product and trust in his ”˜friends.’ It led to a considerable number of ”˜unsubscibes’ and, indeed, ”˜buyer’s fatigue.’
That particular event made me seriously reconsider the ethical aspect of monetizing a blog (although will admit that as a businessman, I didn’t think that placing a deadline on the kit, “before heading off to Africa”, was a very responsible manner of selling either, even in an online format.)
While I much respect your blog, Charlie, I deplore the comment “we have to make the best decisions with the information we have available” if it relates to the May 18 launch of The Empire Building Kit. As a guardian of the trust of your subscribers it’s your responsibility to obtain and convey maximum information.
“It’s like office politics all of a sudden and if you speak up, you could become black listed and never get a promotion within the company. It’s that easy to be held back.”
Jump ship! Screw the cool kids! The company is corrupt, blinded by their own greed.
“now I don’t know who to trust for a dispassionate, non-affiliate REVIEW of a product.”
That’s why Amazon.com is so great. Wait 6 months after a (legit paperback, mass market) book is launched, read 2, 3, and 4 star reviews only.
The problem with “information products” is that the model for the industry has been created by scammers, liars, and outright crooks who have purposely attempted to minimize consumer protections and maximize their personal profits at any cost. Conscious, ethical small businesspeople (like the folks commenting here) have unknowingly copied the model and tactics without consciously examining the purposes and effects of the model.
Thanks for this, Marissa.
Here’s an interesting point, too, is that the circle is definitely feeding on itself. It used to be that a business went looking for business.
The trouble with the particular circle of internet presence that we swim in (I say “we” because I recognize most of the posters here and so I assume we’re most of us swimming in the same pool) is how lazy are any of us being? Are just depending on the same cricles, or are we willing to put the effort in to find other and new (to us) channels and communities that need our stuff.
Just because it’s easy to tweet and post on your blog doesn’t mean that’s where the fish are. Especially when it’s been fished out.
Please excuse the fish analogy- I’ve been hooked at times, too.
I’m with you on the fish analogy, Mark. I think it fits the conversation pretty well!
The circle we swim in does seem very safe, familiar, and probably a bit like a “sure thing” for launching. Whether it’s described as lazy or discomfort of leaving familiar waters or just following a well-worn path because it’s the easiest to see, there is certainly some inertia at work keeping us all fishing in one another’s boats. Paddling away from the crowd and exploring other parts of the water is a bit unnerving, but I think that we in our role as the fisherman and in our role as the fish can be well-served by taking that step.
All easier said than done, I realize. (Goes back to the phrase I often hear from Charlie: Simple, but not necessarily easy!)
“the circle is definitely feeding on itself”
The cannibalism of late-capitalism.
I really enjoy this post and the discussion you’re fostering. Just before I saw this I was debating to myself about retweeting someone’s launch. I was having mixed emotions of “yay for them!” and “I’m already sick of seeing this in my tweet stream!”. I have this conversation with myself way too often.
Launch fatigue? Check.
High school vibes? Check.
Affiliate marketing wariness? Check.
I don’t have any answers but just wanted to thank you for bringing the issue up.
I’m with you on the mixed emotions. I have many times refrained from retweeting someone’s launch because I was tired of seeing it, even though I really did think it was great and really did want to support the person who created the product. I also worry about RTing things so often that people start overlooking my RTs completely. There are people in my Twitterstream who seem to reflexively RT things so often that I sort of scan right past their streams of RTs. It’s a variation on the “if everything’s awesome, nothing is” idea Charlie mentioned above: If everything’s retweet worth (or promotion-worthy), nothing is.
But it gets sticky when you factor in the urge to cheer for someone’s endeavors at the very same moment you’re feeling bombarded by their launch. I suspect this is one of those “there is no right answer, only awareness & attempts at some semblance of balance” things. I definitely don’t have an answer either yet… but I am heartened by the great discussion & the fact that others are pondering the same ideas.
Smart post Marissa — swell comments, gang. LOVE the fish analogy, Mark — so true.
That small-pond concern is why I was particularly impressed with something I heard Naomi Dunford mention the other day (and I only join 1 call per year total, so this was a fluke.) She mentioned her search, for personal-life reasons, in a internet circle far removed (but possibly larger & more dedicated) from this one: the RV lifestyle. She would be exposed to (and will soon be queen of, I’m sure!) a whole ‘nother pond of people that read, share, need, buy, etc.
Naomi gets to dip into varied worlds due to her business and client variety, as do I. But it’s her personal interest that lead her to a big new pond to fish in, should she choose to. She may be taking the IttyBiz 1000 on the read in a continental tour of small businesses, or just checking out a whim, who knows — but given that she runs a small business and is interested in RVs, it stands to reason that others who are into RVs may run IttyBiz’s — and boom! Soon as she engages, they’ll be hooked. (And she smartly refrains from launching the **** out of her everything every two minutes ~!)
All I meant to note was, (said as the one person in the world who isn’t pushing a blog, product or service online): Thanks Marissa, for raising the delicate subject —
Dear Niche Bloggers/value providers/info access sellers/service educators/community leaders: your loving Buyers (me) are also getting hit up by your colleagues/competitors, and while we (your Buyers) can support & buy from many at once, it’s the clamor that can get overwhelming.
Rock on guys —
~Girlpie
…taking it on the ‘read’…
…taking it on the ‘ROAD’…
Ugh — but at least my typos are semi-dual-purpose.
I love your comments. And your typos. Just had to say. 🙂
I hear you.
And this is what I do for a living.
In the last 90 days it’s been staggering how much launching is going on in our circle and it’s really difficult to figure out how to make it work without it becoming a sea of noise.
I’ve had to take a step back and really look into widening the circle and coming up with different approaches that will dim the noise and allow for longer periods in between launches.
Hi Marissa–
I really appreciated this post, as well as the honesty to voice what a lot of people are thinking.
Sometimes I feel overwhelmed by all the sales hype, and have deleted emails which are pervasive and pushy.
I also appreciate when Twitterers (probably incorrect terminology) mix up the promotions with the real life stuff, and helpful info.
Thank you for putting this out there.
Sigh…launch fatigue. Can I just say AMEN?! And yet, I know the methods work. But I also know my own personal limits — especially after going through my first official big launch in April — I haven’t even entirely recovered from that yet!
My Twitter stream has become difficult for me to follow. Yes, I’m happy that everyone’s launching and successful. But at the same time, it inspires this “keeping-up-with-all-of-that” feeling that is just…yuck. And when I’m not floating on top of it with my own launch-y life preserver, I feel like I’m drowning in it.
Thanks for saying it, Marissa. I feel like I need to start tempering any launch strategies I develop with a giant BUT. BUT do what feels right to you. BUT be aware that people are getting tired. BUT, BUT, BUT.
This isn’t an answer to not overdosing our “pond” with RTs, but there is a tool to dim the noise a little bit, at least for Twitter.
It’s the tool I’ve been asking TweetDeck for: you can now selectively FILTER and hide tweets based on words (like #lakers if I don’t want to know the score until later, or anything you don’t want to see live-tweets on for a weekend!) or tweeter (I love her but sometimes #smuttysteff gets on a ramble!) and you haven’t unfollowed! You just remove the filter the next day, or whenever.
So if you love your peeps, but already bought the “How to solve World Peace Ebook” you can filter out that term, or RTs with that term for a little while and still get the interaction you love with everyone at the same time.
I’m BIG on having my cake and eating it too!
“And yet, I know the methods work.”
Atomic bombs work pretty well at ending wars.
The fact that something “works” does not mean it is ethical!
Okay – to swim against the stream…this idea of ‘launch fatigue’ is myopic at best, suicidal at worst….
I’ll quote from the 1994 book by Jay Conrad Levison and Seth Godin “The Guerilla Marketing Handbook”
http://books.google.com/books?id=O8kXcRjqOZIC&lpg=PA46&ots=_9zRa_PgMC&dq=guerrilla%20marketing%20sick%20of%20your%20ads&pg=PA46#v=onepage&q&f=false
“Don’t change your ad because your friends and family are sick and tired of looking at it. You will get tired of your ad a long time before your prospects will. Repetition and reinforcement are the keys…”
That was 1994 and it was old advice then. It’s till true but now your ‘friends’ aren’t your real life friend, they are people like all of you – the smart people who follow internet marketing closely.
But listen to the advice – YOU people aren’t the prospects. Got that? Your experience isn’t normal…it just FEELS normal to you.
I daresay almost everyone who posted a comment here follows the Internet Marketing world a LOT more than 99.9% of the U.S. population…and a lot more than 99.1% of the people who want to start businesses, quit their jobs, and so on. Most business people have no clue who Seth is…much less Clay, Dave, Johnny B., Naomi, Brian, Kern, Walker or any number of other people.
Could you identify most of the 8 people I just mentioned with just one name? Then – you are a marketing geek and YOU’RE NOT NORMAL.
So – you are fatigued. Whatever. That’s YOU.
Are you tired of hearing about Wacey Munsell?
Nope? You know why you aren’t sick to DEATH of Wacey Munsell? Because you aren’t into rodeos or bullfighting. Google him – page after page of references, images, video…
Somewhere , right now, people are SICK of Wacey Munsell. Remember that.
Are you a marketing person? Do you have a good product – one that would actually help people? One that delivers more value to the person than it costs them?
Then market it, proudly. You are HELPING people with your launch. You are helping people make money and lead better lives.
Thanks to everyone who has launched products that have helped me – Dave, Naomi, Sonia, Clay…thank you. I’ve made money this year because of your too much launching. I was living in a hotel, now I have money in the bank.
Ignore your inner voice. Ignore your friends. Don’t stop launching.
Lee- you’ve got a great point, and I agree nearly 100%, with some caveats. I learned long ago that when I was bored with something I was saying, that meant it was just starting to be received by my audience and I needed to keep saying it, and find new points of aliveness within me to keep saying it.
We won’t stop promoting to our email list, and we won’t stop launching when we need to.
However, there are two points Marissa brought up that I think apply here, one of which didn’t apply in 1994.
The first point is that when you have a list you can fatigue your list with too many launches. If I promote one thing all month, and then next month promote something else, and then next month promote something, I start hearing from our subscribers- unsubscribes start accelerating, people start complaining, our open rate goes down.
Really important to pay attention to this.
The second point is that in 1994 there wasn’t social media. So although in the late 90’s and early into this decade I may have been on different email lists all of who mentioned a certain promotion, and the buzz was considerable.
However, with social media that effect is multiplied. So that it’s possible for someone to hear multiple times from multiple sources about multiple offers all in one day. It’s a blur.
I agree entirely to not stop launching and promoting very assertively. And, our business isn’t going to depend just on the current circle of social media we’re running in.
And we’re going to pay attention to how much we’re pushing at our own email list.
Don’t stop launching. Just… slow down, listen. Don’t follow your fears, but do take a moment to think about your average reader and what their experience is.
I’m glad that you guys chimed in here with this perspective. I do think that we are, like you said Lee, in a completely difference space and vantage point than our people or potential people. They’re not following the same crowds, or all in the same circles as us.
But to a certain extent, yes, a lot of them still might be overlapping more than they used to. Which is the result of blogs cross-promoting and social media.
I think the most important point is to pay attention to your people. See how they’re responding, and see what the trends are. Once you find your groove and the right amount of promotion, then you can be confident in it, even if you might think it’s too much or too little. That’s not important compared to what’s working for your audience.
Thanks Lee — but no one suggested anyone stop launching. And I find that most niche markets have this same concern: your readers/list/buyers are also seeing launches from all of that niche’s colleagues/competitors.
Mark and Jonathan make the point that Marissa introduced: listening to your audience is key. I’m a member of every target audience tied to each of my varied (if lame) interests; there’s Launch Fatigue felt in the pundit, real estate and scrapbooking worlds, too — yeesh!
Everyone does it (maybe because they follow the great advice of this gang!) Your point that even rodeo fans, following several rodeo sites/brands/suppliers/venues/stars/etc. are getting sick of sweet little Wacey proves that we (well, not me, I’m the launchee, I just buy), that all of us must remember that old-Hollywoodism: less-is-more. Over-saturation can be a star-killer.
I think it’s the So/Me outlets, the affiliate programs, and the varied RT motives that can make someone launching say, only 3 times a year seem to be blitzing.
Thanks again, Marissa, for the conversation starter!
It’s the overlap that’s the root of fatigue, so an option is to unsub from all! In fact, I’m starting to delete without reading cos I know I’ll get 5 more from 5 different people saying the same thing. So it’s time to cull.
No’s one to blame but us, the subscribers. It’s our choice, esp when we realise how many of the people we follow and uber connected. For someone who follows just one, there isn’t any problem at all.
Lesson? Don’t fish in the same pond everyone’s swimming in. Find new ponds, new fish.
@TiaSparkles
I mean “are” uber connected..
I think it’s Capitalism that is the root of the fatigue.
Lee, your product with johnny on question the rules has been one of the best products I’ve got in forever. Maybe the best all around.
This comment helped me out too. I hope to say that I’ll have some money in the bank one day too. I resonate way too much with everything you talked about in question the rules. Seriously top notch stuff.
On the one hand, you are totally correct that those in this circle should be marketing outside of this circle and thus there is no launch fatigue.
On the other hand, you are wrong in that the market for marketing materials is for a demographic that hopes to get rich/lifestyle quick by selling marketing materials. It is a circle jerk of a market, the very structure of a bubble.
The recession popped the bubble and now people are pissed that the promises of wealth/ideal lifestyle are being broken.
This is really hard to read. And, it’s a really good post.
The hard part is that I’ve deeply (deeply) struggled for years with daring to promote my work. In not putting myself ‘out there’ I’ve avoided self-induced dread of becoming part of the machine- and this has been long before Twitter, etc… And my personal hell- feeling like I might put out what Andrea Lee has coined “infocrap”. The big rub has been that my clients have been some of the biggest names (in the world) but all my work has been strictly confidential. (I take that very seriously.) And due to the nature or platform of some of this work, they’re not going to be talking about it. It’s been a tricky equation: don’t risk becoming part of the machine + uber confidentiality= flirting with poverty and not making a living doing what I love and what I’m dang good at doing.
As I’ve come to find out, flirting with poverty is vastly overrated and no mark of artistry or genius. I’ve done a lot of work around this and have much more to do. (We all have an Achilles Heel!) But I’ve been really working on my mindset and made moves to put myself out there (Twitter, FB, working on the website, etc…). Part of what has helped me is trusting in myself; that I put my offerings out into the world with integrity and trusting that folks are incredibly competent and able to decide for themselves what their threshold is for information and marketing. To ride the tails of your fantastic infomercial analogy- they’re able to turn the channel.
My totally off-the-cuff, completely unscientific estimate of what I put on Twitter is about 85% conversation and sharing, etc… with the remainder being information about my work and offerings. The part that has made this possible, whether it’s the ‘right’ equation or not, is that it’s 100% from the heart. I don’t believe there is a perfect equation and as so many here have wisely said, it really comes down to figuring out what feels right and works for you. And that, as I’m finding, is constantly evolving.
So many good points to comment on here but I’ll try to wrap it up… There is an old Norwegian saying: that which comes from the heart, goes to the heart. As I negotiate the right ways and degrees of promoting what I hope is good work and ride the waves of nausea when there is doubt, the only rudder I have is my trust in that’s coming from my heart.
PS- This is like the 4th time I’ve ever commented on a blog 🙂 and the high school analogy that’s been mentioned: has been come up no less than 20 times in the past month in coaching my clients. Some social psychology grad student has their work cut out for them! Would be a fascinating topic.
Thanks for an interesting and important discussion, Marissa!
Oh, I meant to throw thanks to Charlie in there….
(And no – this isn’t an on purpose, oops. I’m just an idiot…)
Thanks for an honest post and great discussion here! I especially liked this brave comment:
“There is a very tight, obvious network of folks who are not only selling their own products continually, but those in their clique-y tribes as well. And now I don’t know who to trust for a dispassionate, non-affiliate REVIEW of a product.”
&
“But who is going to risk telling Darren or Naomi or Danielle or Johnny or Pam or the Chris’s, et al, that their product is disappointing, stinks, was a waste of cashola? Not me. Not you. And certainly not their hundreds of fans.”
I DO think this is a big problem in the clique world of the internet. I’m not talking about any specific people’s products, just all the continued hype. Sometimes I really do not think the raves & hype is warranted. Can’t everyone see through this game quite quickly? It often feels like the emperor’s new clothes.
I’ve seen some products by some so called masters that where VERY disappointing, filled with waaaay too many empty words that just waste time & are like age old marketing informercials. Yet, others rave about them. Maybe it is just me, but I hated informercials & I hate all the blah,blah,blah marketing “infocrap” that permeates the internet world. Who has the time for this? It reminds me of those teeny little products that come in great big packages. Who is fooled by this?
Yet, what do you hear? Kiss kiss and more kiss kiss. ..because of the name, cliques and everyone too afraid to tell the truth. Sigh.
I don’t know the answer, but I think MANY people are dealing with launch fatigue and there has got to be a better and more honest way. I’m not surprised to hear Charlie say he is hearing “more backchannel information about people airing this exact sentiment”. I think it is a truth that many feel, but most are too afraid to say it as it is an unpopular stance.
Most people do not have money to waste and can not buy everything. Constant launching to death exhausts an audience/tribe and turns off some, if not all. I’m grateful to hear people honestly discussing this. Thank you Marissa for starting this important conversation!
This conversation is brilliant and so necessary.
Look, we follow these one-name people because they have awesome content. We buy their stuff for the same reason. But I’m not always sure I need everything they are selling and I need an honest, non-affiliate site to give me input. I see an opportunity here…
However, I think the key takeaway (corp speak! eee gads) here is that we need to expand our markets. I love the bit about Naomi and RV’s. I’ve got lots of love outside of social media/copywriting/OBM, etc. It is an excellent point. Artists might need copywriters, eh? As opposed to the usual life/business coaches I support.
And Lee. That’s quite a comment and I’ve copied it to motivate myself. The part about the rodeo star is excruciatingly important.
Interestingly enough (I’m sure I’m not alone), Darren’s newletter today is How to Turn Your Blog into a Product Launch Engine.
LMAO.
I guess I’m not always entirely sure that all the really big one-namers I’ve followed was due to their awesome content. It is for many of them. But in many cases it seems that the awesome content has slowed to a trickle and there’s been some kind of bait-and-switch.
Getting products I’ve bought weeks late or products that don’t cover what they said they would, or getting extremely limited interaction or feedback (which was presumed to be included) in a membership site or program, or paying for a teleclass designed to teach something when it’s really just two people shooting the breeze, and even looking at people’s pricing sometimes kind of makes me do a double take. And I often wonder whether the people I’m buying from would still be as internet famous as they are if they acted that way when they started their business instead of now, when they can kind of get away with it.
Having different circles is great, not just for selling things to new people but also for seeing what you can learn and take away from it. I recently signed up for an online course with someone outside of my usual blogosphere/echo chamber and was kind of stunned that, in response to my e-mail inquiries, he focused 100% on me and what my goals were and which of his e-course options would be the best fit for me. His bio is also written very formally. Not that there’s a right or wrong, per se, but it was a neat experience and showed me how it could be done. And I’ve also found that leaving my comfortable circles gives me all kinds of fresh knowledge and ideas to share when I return.
“we need to expand our markets.”
Most people commenting here are in the SAME markets. This is largely a conversation occurring between the losers of a zero-sum competitive game where we are told that anyone can win if they only have the right attitude and work hard enough. What we need to do is realize that the game is rigged, that the winners won because of some arbitrary circumstances (like gaming Digg and other social media back when people trusted it to be honest opinions), and most importantly, we need to FIGHT to restructure the power hierarchy so that wealth and “success” can be redistributed equitably and fairly amongst all the players.
Just asking – is it possible that it’s not a clique but it’s tbat some people like some things and others don’t?
When I read reviews I. Yelp or Amazon I notice a world of opinions and I don’t suspect cliques.
johnny and I asked fir reviews of QTR and they weren’t cliquey. Most were positive but not all and many pointed out things that bugged them or that they would change.
I see a meritocracy much more than a clique.
Great post! I with there was an honest review site (like Info Not Mercial) for info products. Not just pros/cons but who it’s for and who really wouldn’t benefit from it.
I’ve spent a lot of money on products that were overpriced, came late and didn’t cover what they said they would. I’ve always felt a bit resentful about it (“I wish I was an internet celebrity so I could sell useless crap without anybody noticing”) but, have been hesitant to return things–I don’t want to be looked at as ‘that’ customer.
OTOH, I’ve also heard other people diss products I thought were well worth it. I think this is might be because sellers (and reviewers) aren’t specific enough in explaining who exactly would be a good candidate for a product, even when they pretend to (“this product isn’t for you if you are close-minded and don’t want to learn things.”)
I made a huge list yesterday of products I felt pressured to buy and what free resources I hadn’t tapped yet in those areas. Why would I spend hundreds of dollars (or even tens of dollars) on something when I haven’t even bothered to read the free report or listen to the free audio I already have?
And there’s been other times I really DID want to buy something, but not right that very second… By the time the launch ‘ends’ and the price quadruples I’m no longer interested, and an ongoing program with a monthly fee has lost me as a customer forever. Woops.
TOTALLY agree on the infomercial vibe and the small “high school” feel of the blogosphere/echo chamber. There are definitely other areas I try to spend my time (as a reader, contributor/commenter, etc.) just to break out of that, and I find that I learn more that way, too. New information from new sources is not the rehashed, tired schtick.
I do feel like the conversation has all-but-disappeared at times; that my voice isn’t valued and nobody will notice if I make good thoughtful points or offer a new perspective; that the only way I can ‘get in’ on the fun is by buying things I often don’t get much benefit from and adding my voice to the chorus, cheering on someone else’s efforts.
Thanks, Marissa, for being brave enough to post what many of us have been thinking and get this conversation started!
Came back to see this amazing evolving conversations. Some thoughts to add to the mix:
1. I firmly believe and agree that it’s really important to “Go To” your audience. It’s great to pull people into your world and tribe and to be part of one. But it’s equally important, energizing, economically sustainable to find, go to, and participate in other communities–online and real. (Yeah, Randi for posting–it’s hard to break that wall to join a conversation).
2. I wonder if part of the numbness we’re sharing here relates to the fact that there’s a world of people selling “how to make money online”–including the hip Third Tribe I paid to join. This small world IS the audience, and there’s a continual message that what you’re doing isn’t enough, could be better, if you understood more you’d earn more. All true, but sometimes just taking action and getting help from one or two trusted sources can be the right, best solution. Maybe the clique-ish feeling comes from a sense that there are those who are pros (the inner circle) and those who need to buy. Hmmm
3. I think a lot of the launches are for really worthy things. But there’s only so much it makes sense to invest in, and the timing needs to be right. With all the “open doors,” “closed doors,” “urgency,” we’re not able to “shop” when we might best benefit and for the things we most need and want. I put myself on clothes and restaurant budgets, and don’t spend much time shopping. But the online conversation–in this tiny corner!–some days feels like an online mall for.
4. The Seth Godin mantra of “ship” — which he muted the other day with a call to make stuff that’s good–can be misapplied. It can create the sense that if you don’t “launch,” if you don’t have a products or big “ITs” out the door, you’re not doing what you should–you’re a loser. If every one of us started to sell our own vitamin water, who would our customers be? Oh, we wouldn’t buy it. We would just squeeze some lemon into water from the tap. How old-fashioned. (This is the cynical, jaded me coming out.)
5. The whole discussion begs the question of how much is “enough” (yes, we need enough, a generous enough). And how do you stay humble. How do you tell people what you do and let them buy that from you, while maintaining a sense of self. Are you enough, or do you need tons of “partners”–every time and for every launch? I’m seeing hints of growing pains. Growth and bigness become part of a company’s DNA to keep the growing infrastructure sustainable. Many of the more visible online presences ARE “companies” and have staff, teams, and competitors (or potential competitors) and we’re seeing signs of this growth and expansion within this insular online world.
6. What are we ADDING. Are we really making a contribution? How can we make our contribution better? As I said at the Wealthy Thought Leader training, how can we make our ideas and work more robust, more lasting, more valuable. How can we bring more of ourselves, our expertise, our frame of reference and our actual sweat equity of research, testing, story-telling to create value?
Clearly all of this hits a nerve with me, and something I’ve been discussing with trusted peers and colleagues. (And of course, I’m in the “launching” boat with everyone else.)
j
I loved seth godins post the other day. Yes, ship and ship often but don’t ship complete shit and have 1000 bloggers say it smells like roses, when they never even bought it or used the information.
“I’ve spent a lot of money on products that were overpriced, came late and didn’t cover what they said they would. I’ve always felt a bit resentful about it (“I wish I was an internet celebrity so I could sell useless crap without anybody noticing”) but, have been hesitant to return things–I don’t want to be looked at as ”˜that’ customer.”
This is taught explicitly in some internet marketing courses. It is a known fact that the longer the time available for returns, the less likely customers will return the item due to loss aversion. What you are describing is cognitive dissonance, another psychological tool used by marketers to manipulate customers into buying shady products and not returning them.
This is such a true and valuable conversation. Thrilling, really.
I think we need to keep in mind that this micro era of the internet and is the wild west. It’s new. So much of what’s being done is pioneering. “Making money from a solo BLOG?” 5 years ago, this terrain was only for The Huff Po to capitalize on. Now everybody and their “SAHM” is trying to cash in.
As they should be. This is the opportunity of living in 2010. And the cream will rise to the top in terms of useful content and integrity. Social media is in it’s infancy and it’s going to be messy and difficult to know who’s up to what and why. This is where — just like in advertising (which was the OLD wild west) — discernment and consumer vigilantes need to be at the ready.
Consumers need to call out the crap content. If you think my stuff sucks, please tell me why. (and no, I won’t give you a refund, but I’ll learn, I’ll up my game, I’ll try something new.) The charlatans will go away. The cliques will be shaken.
I think, say, 76.5% of ebooks are fluff. I have a bit of patience (just a bit) for that b/c these are experimental times. That said…
What’s being lost, forgotten, avoided is the artistry and intent — the soul-drive to create something innovative, to push one’s creative bounds, to be first and foremost, REALLY USEFUL…and authentic in that utility.
And you know, that mediocrity is nothing new. People have been making and selling useless shit for centuries. But it’s the real art that will stand the test of time. It’s up to each of us to judge the art for ourselves. But the selling and the hype and the gold rush fatigue — that’s never going to go away.
+++
Marissa, Charlie, way to open it up!
Sorry to butt in again, but as the lone visitor without a blog/launch/product to sell, I’m hoping my POV will be useful. (Or I’m delusional, one or the other.)
@Yael — since you’ve felt pressured to buy, and bought stuff you didn’t get value from, AND didn’t even use the possibly swell free content offered as a test drive by a seller, I suggest you consider adopting a budget and guideline for what you’ll buy online (similar to what Janet mentions.) Feeling pressure is your choice, buying is your choice, giving feedback when you don’t find the promised value is (I feel) your duty, and giving the freebies a test drive before buying is just plain common sense.
I’ve spent LOTS of money online on info products, services, events, access and advice — and found every single purchase worth double its cost in ROI. Because I pick smart. I’m a fan with my praise, attention or comments, but I’m a careful consumer with my $$. You can be too.
@Janet makes some useful points, especially that it’s up to each buyer to determine what to buy. And that not every single thing you offer for sale has to be a summer-tentpole premier launch. Maybe one product is a foreign film spring release, another is an Oscar contender leaked in fall… and then your summer blockbuster — the one designed to appeal to the widest range of buyers — will get the attention it needs.
@Danielle is spot on that consumers need to call out crap content. Kelly (in comment #18) asked who’s going to call out the stars we buy from, and I say: it’s a duty we each shoulder as buyers. I DO complain to the store over rotten apples; I get a refund on lotion I’m allergic to; I tell shops when their competitor has the same thing at a lower price — and I pass on things I liked, or didn’t need, to those who may.
Online info is trickier, of course, since you can’t un-ring an info-bell. But be a smart shopper, give honest feedback to the seller and to your circle who might also need such a purchase, and everyone wins, far beyond your range.
I’ve never bought anything I didn’t need based on the seller’s passion, desire or authenticity (although I do occasionally send the cost of the thing as a supportive donation and suggest they give mine to someone who can’t afford it — aside: you’d be appalled at the lack of manners this highlights!), but when that heart and soul Danielle mentions is poured into a useful product or service that does interest me at the right price, I become the best kind of fan: word of mouth raves from a trusted, discerning, respected source, to people you’d never reach otherwise. And I don’t mean RTs.
There are others like me. And for every rave you guys get on your killer offerings, there are tons more that forget to speak up and tell you how great it is. But it’s your job, I think, to make it easy for the less-than-rave feedback to reach you, too.
Consider looking at your launch year as a movie studio’s slate;
at your products as a varied slate of films pointed to specialty markets;
and consider your readers as fans who love reading (about) you or seeing you on the small screen, but can be effortlessly turned into ticket buyers IF you’re not over-exposed, if they can Only see you doing your special thing on that giant silver screen or up close and personal — and not as a guest star on every other sitcom.
Hell, you’re already stars — shine as smart as you do bright, and we’ll all making the ‘wild west’ a great place to be ~
Thanks for your time,
~GirlPie
@GirlPie, Agreed on the budget + guidelines (but not the condescencion); as I mentioned that’s something I’ve been looking at–free sources of information available in the library and other places. And I do give the freebies a whirl, I just haven’t always used *every* freebie available (from anybody, not just the person with a product) before buying.
I’ll strongly disagree, though, that I have a ‘duty’ to give unsolicited feedback. I will comment if asked and do fill out surveys, but I don’t do it because I see it as a ‘duty,’ but because I want to help. I don’t see much point in giving feedback that people do not wish to hear.
That’s great that you’ve found ROI on every product you’ve ever bought, but not everybody has had that experience–and I wouldn’t be so quick to rush and blame the consumer or tell them they need to be more careful–it’s a more complicated equation. You said, “I’ve never bought anything I didn’t need.” Well, need is a relative term. In a sense I don’t think anyone really “needs” any more information; often just the act of committing money to your desires is enough. But is it really necessary? What anybody ‘needs’ and whether they think they got value on what was offered is not so black and white. There’s an excellent book that delves into this, Mistakes Were Made (But Not By Me), that goes into how we convince ourselves something is worthwhile or useful after spending money on it; as a way of justifying the purchase to ourselves. Our brain has a lot of blind spots; might be worth looking into.
No condescension, just a suggestion to the points you wrote about in your 2nd and 4th paragraphs.
I read that you don’t want to make a return when you are dissatisfied with a purchase because you “don’t want to be looked at as ‘that’ customer” — which I think is too bad; I’m sure your insights could help improve the product, maybe reverse your investment, maybe even help the future buyer, and probably with no personal reflection on you at all. But it’s a personal choice, obviously.
No rush, no blame (?!) from me — just suggestions (that have helped others) on how to deal with issues you raised…
Sorry that I don’t really follow your objecting paragraph on my use of the word “need” as to my purchase decisions. I don’t agree with any of it, but that’s what’s so great about getting to meet on the net like this: we all get to learn about other ways of seeing and reacting to the world around us. It’s great to read your take on feeling resentful, or pressured, or giving feedback, or blind spots — I’m sure it’s helpful for sellers to know there are buyers like you, so you are giving feedback, which is swell. I’m always intrigued by the comments that deep-think-blogs like Charlie’s, and smart posts like Marissa’s, attract.
Thanks for your feedback ~ !
Here’s my take…one that I’m sure is going to piss some people off.
There are many marketers, some of which are in this very comment thread, that are all take, take, take.
Help me launch they say. And I say yes.
When I ask in return? I get crickets.
To many of the same people, I ask…where is the customer? In all this talk about creating money, there’s no talk about the customer.
Yes, you’re a great marketer, but sometimes building a business isn’t just about filling the pockets of the businessman/woman…it’s about providing real value.
I bought a product recently for $100 that I was disappointed in. I didn’t say anything, not because I didn’t want to make enemies, but because I didn’t care. However, when I heard others, who’s $100 means much more to them, complain and receive criticism in response, that’s when I started seeing things differently.
Lots of cliques, lots of selfish marketers, lots of launchers, lots of takers, but very little givers.
Most of the people I’m talking about probably don’t even realize that I’m talking about them because they are so far up their own behind (no Charlie, not you).
To what Lee said, I disagree 100%. Why? Because no one is going outside the market to get customers…they are using the same pool that everyone else is. Post on Copyblogger, do interviews, Tweet it, and get some big names to promote it. That’s the strategy, and so far, it’s been working…but it’s losing it’s touch.
I’ve even thought about leaving the space all together because it’s too cannibalistic and claustrophobic. We’re feeding off of each other, and I’m tired of watching it.
Part of the problem is that no one is taking any risks. Instead of creating something worth buying, we’re all relying on the marketing…and the affiliates.
It’s just like right now when I look at Twitter and my RSS reader I see non-stop messages about a product that’s about to go up in price. Why is that the message? Shouldn’t the product be the message?
I can’t even blame the creator for this one either, because it’s not them…it’s the affiliates spamming my screen with the same shit.
I’m sorry, but what I’m seeing is a total lack of originality, uniqueness, and value across the board. I say this not to call anyone out, but to encourage you all to step up your game. Let’s get out of this launch mentality and build tangible, valuable, and worthwhile products that sell themselves over time instead of expecting a shiny object or fancy name to do it for us.
The world deserves better than that, and so do you.
Well said, Nathan. I hear you.
When the smoke clears, I think those that manage the right balance of substance and style will remain standing, relatively unscathed. I wish those with pure substance would, too, but it seems that products don’t sell themselves, and I’m afraid they’ll walk away.
Sad but true. In fact, it’s very sad.
Too many people are forced out by cutthroats because they don’t have the heart to play the game in that manner. Hell, I might be one of them…who knows.
Nothing wrong with marketing, but sometimes it’s really hard to find the good value through the noise.
“Too many people are forced out by cutthroats because they don’t have the heart to play the game in that manner.”
It takes longer to find a path with heart–no shortcuts. Not all of us have been forced out. I’ve also noticed that many of those selling remarkable things are much quieter about it, ironically. If you have to say your thing is remarkable, is it really?
Nathan, excellent post. As a recipient / consumer, I have been surprised by the lack of focus on the consumer in many of the posts. The emphasis appears to be on finding a novel approach to discover / reach new fishing grounds (i.e. attract more buyers), i.e baiting those consumers (as suggested by Lee), who are yet unfamiliar with the baiting process (and thus not yet affected by launching fatigue, as experienced by consumers / subscribers.) As Nathan suggests, the discussion focuses on novel ways to ‘take’ rather than ‘give.’
Frankly, I regard the aforementioned type of discovery process as questionable.
The discussion here is fascinating, but it is indeed a discussion amongst the ever-returning clique. Consumers expect quality, value, novelty, and a serious vetting of- and standards for affiliates.
First – great discussion…
Nathan – when you say you see a lack of value and originality “across the boards”, it’s such a negative blanket statement that I wonder market you’re looking at…
the product Johnny and I did has 30+ hours of content…
Dave Navarro’s stuff – ton of content, great value…
Third Tribe – I pay 27 a month, easily worth that and more…
i could keep going…but your statement – broad and vague – is a good way to besmirch everyone. Who is that helping?
And there’s a reason to market to people who read Copyblogger for Internet marketing products….that is what the readers are interested in. Should we them ladies apparel? Cheese? I do seminars on filmmaking and it shouldn’t be a shock that I market it to people who want to make films.
As for the rest of it, it just sounds like bad marketing advice…there’s a reason the product launch stuff is popular…it works. Nobody is making you do it…but firsthand experience, it works.
Do you want to show people how to market effectively or how to never piss off anyone who follows the Internet marketing world closely?
Let me add some nuance to this, Lee, because you’re right that Nathan’s statement was a bit too black and white. However, I think your reply might carry the same type of false alternatives.
What we have to recognize is that effectiveness can be seen from multiple levels. Many of the launch techniques that are effective in the short term may prove to be ineffective in the long-term if they become the way things are done. Similarly, techniques that may not seem to be effective in the short term often are incredibly effective in the long term.
Second, I do think it’s possible to both market well and mitigate the amount of people you piss off. Sure, you’ll trigger some people, but the fact that you’ll trigger some doesn’t give us carte blanche to piss off more people. (I’m not saying you’re saying this, but it’s easy to misread it.)
Lastly, just because we can doesn’t mean we should. Gold rush busts often are just that because people focus on the rush and not the sustainability piece. Other gold rushes turn into actual communities because they’re done at a reasonable pace and with the intent to build a community.
A wise man recently told me that the people who made money in the Gold Rush were the folks who sold the miners their equipment.
Chew on that koan….
Lee,
I didn’t say anything about your product, Dave’s products, or the content in the Third Tribe.
In fact, I’ve seen inside all 3.
I think the fact that you’re so defensive is an example of why more people don’t come forward with complaints.
You can call it what you want, because I don’t really care.
Just because people in need of what we’re selling are on copyblogger doesn’t mean that the market isn’t in danger of saturation or that there aren’t other portions of the market out there. I’m simply saying that what the OP says here is true, which is that we’re in danger of launch fatigue.
As proof, I talked with 5 people, all “A-List” this week that told me the same. It’s a fact.
Lastly, just because something works doesn’t mean it’s right. Might as well just call yourself an internet marketer at that point, right? Not saying there is anything bad with IM, or with pissing people off (I do it all the time), but don’t call yourself something you aren’t.
Again, there’s a difference between good marketing and obnoxious marketing…some are coming perilously close to the latter.
I prefer to think long-term.
OK, I wasn’t sure I was going to comment here, because the discussion is already SO rich, but Nathan your comment got me going.
Maybe it just happens to be who I’m following, but most of the people I see launching are at it every day giving free content in blog posts, podcasts and newsletters galore. I see very little “take, take, take”, at least in my corner of the pond.
So perhaps we’re at a tipping point here in the whole Third Tribe set of strategies. After all, the Third Tribe was named in response to the saturation of the market with the “yellow highlighter” strategies.
The NEW way was to get clear on your market and your message and make all the content you were giving, including the 10% or so that was advertising, useful, worth sharing and just too valuable to throw away.
When Copyblogger started this was a whole new ballgame. But now here we are about 4 years later and a whole lot more people, including us, have gotten really good at this.
Overall, the portion of the year that anyone here spends launching is just a fraction of their day-in day-out stuff. But when so many more are doing it, sure things are going to feel a bit saturated.
So what to do?
I like @Danielle’s idea that we’ll just need to up our game, put in more soul, find our really authentic razor’s edge that takes the discussion to new places and raises the frequency of the whole pond at once. (OK, that was a lot of mixed metaphors, but you get the idea!)
And in the same way, reaching out to other markets and groups and inviting them into our world stands to enrich all of us at once too.
I feel really, really fortunate to have heard Mark’s take on “social media freeze up” on my very first day on Twitter. He made the point that it gets so easy to start posting for the rest of the crowd who are posting and tweeting and responding a lot and forgetting the silent majority who are our real market.
That became a foundation for me and so when I somehow got a flurry of new age followers from Denmark last week I was thrilled to connect with a whole new group, and I’ve thought about them this week as I was writing and hunting for interesting bits out there.
And I think it’s pretty ironic that info-crap only starts to look like that when the game has already gone to a whole new level but some people are still playing it at the old one.
And truthfully, to those who’ve got the old messages down and have moved on, the stuff looks like crap, but like Lee is saying, there’s a huge crowd of people out there who have never even heard that old message and it’s not crap to them at all.
I’ve been trying to describe to my husband, who isn’t online much, the idea of “neighborhoods” on Twitter and I’ve been trying to find the factors that define this ‘pond’ we’re in.
And I think I’d have to say that one of the defining factors is that we all seem pretty interested in “what’s next”, in an evolutionary kind of way, both personally and globally.
So I wonder what set of strategies will be next and how long it will be before we’re rolling our eyes at the “always launching” crowd like we roll them at the “yellow highlighter” crowd today. = >
Susan,
Just wanted to comment that the “take” I’m referring to is behind the scenes, not in the open.
The “third tribe” notion is fundamentally flawed. It’s all about surfaces, projecting the appearance of trust to jaded consumers, rather than doing good business that creates trust through honesty and integrity.
Nathan,
I’m not defensive – I just literally have no idea what you’re talking about. Is there sone reason you aren’t being specific? That would be a lot better than a blanket smear that could apply to anyone / everyone..
So, please – what and who are you talking about?
I might agree if I understood what you meant..either way, I’d be honest about it…
I thought I was being fairly specific.
It’s not my blog, and I have partners that rely on me not stirring too many things up, so I’m not going to name names, but I’ll say this:
Spamming Twitter and blogs saying that the 3rd Tribe Price is going up is a sad tactic that has me disappointed with the people involved.
If the product stands on it’s own, then talk about the product and not the price.
I’m not saying you are doing this, but I’m saying many are.
As for the launch fatigue…just seems like we’re in the wild west. Launch hard and fast…always talk about money and brag about how many people you can get to buy your stuff. Again, not you, but you probably have an idea of what I mean.
As I said before, where is the talk of the customer? We’re teaching people to create a bunch of shit so that we can make lots of money, but I see very few people teaching someone how to make meaning. Even startups get that.
The reason Internet Marketers make launches work is because they aren’t doing them every day. In our niche? It’s getting to that point.
Maybe we need more cooperation and communication…I’m not sure.
As for the “Take, take, take” stuff…again, I won’t call anyone out, but I’ll simply say that I’ve seen a lot of true colors, and I don’t like what I see.
I’ve had dozens of people email and DM me to help them pitch something…and in many cases, if the product is good…I do. But then when I ask for help in return, I often get a cold shoulder. This is before I even give them a chance to see my product.
This isn’t something that the consumers see, but people like you and I do get to see it.
Does it sound like I’m painting with a broad brush? Sure, but I think if you did some research and look through my Tweets/archives you could probably read between the lines a bit.
Maybe I’m just in this space too often, but frankly I’m tired of the quick hit MMO stuff. And worse, we’re creating a vacuum of people doing the same thing. We need a new colony man!
What I like to see is stuff like Thesis and Scribe, which are real products that have value over time.
I like Pat Flynn because he’s experimenting with Mobile Apps.
Tim Brownson is trying to give a book away in order to make meaning.
Andrew Werner is doing some cool stuff.
These are people that are trying to expand the game…I like that.
Maybe it’s a me problem, but it seems like what a lot of people are doing is creating this giant ponzi scheme in that “he who has the most friends wins.”
Am I crazy? Perhaps. I don’t know a lot about you or how much time you’ve spent in this niche, so maybe you just haven’t been here long enough to see it. You’ve got the benefit of seeing things from several perspectives.
I get super frustrated too when I hear someone is making insane money from an affiliate program for setting up blogs and they never ever ever ever promote the person they set up the blog for.
There are people that actually work on design and have deep reasons for helping people establish blogs and make their sites look fantastic. But it’s these people that are struggling. Instead the big dogs that post on copyblogger, set up a random service and make money w/ affiliate income and it means nothing more to them than the money.
Nathan, I think you have a really important position on all of this, and I hope you DON’T leave the niche behind. We need people like you here!
The only thing I don’t understand is this: “I have partners that rely on me not stirring too many things up…”
What does that mean? Are they Russian mafia? Will they burn down your house for telling the TRUTH? Are you making business with bullshit, too, but need the money and thus cannot escape?
Please, don’t take this as an offense! Money is money. I cannot live without it, neither. But at the same time, I don’t get it. If we don’t call the bad people out, they will throw their bullshit right into our fan!
lol, I understand.
I’ll explain…
Mike Cliffe Jones is my partner with Beyond Blogging. Rich Lazzara at Roark Media. Oleg Mokhov.
What I say affects them too, and they aren’t necessarily as comfortable as I am with being outspoken. They didn’t give me a gag order, but I’m trying not to harm them by being an ass.
Were I only in business for myself I would be lighting it up with specific examples. If you really want to know, send me an email. As Scott will tell you, I’m always around 🙂
“Maybe it’s a me problem, but it seems like what a lot of people are doing is creating this giant ponzi scheme in that “he who has the most friends wins.””
It’s called a bubble, and we’re in a recession caused by a bubble popping. This whole IM bubble popped a little late.
Woo! This is a heavy discussion and I’m too tired to comment very intelligently today.
What I’d like to see is the following scenario:
1. We put out a product or service that truly helps people.
2. People who need the product/service, buy it.
3. They talk about it to others because it helped them or solved a problem they had.
Wouldn’t it be nice if it was all that simple and organic-like? I’m probably naive, but I don’t see why it has to be so much more complicated.
Of course, then it’s my job to do my best to make sure the people who need it have it available. But, I don’t really need to use scarcity tactics for that.
The problem with something like Twitter though is that there’s no way to segment who your message gets to. I don’t want to send irrelevant and repeated messages to people who aren’t interested, but there’s really no way to avoid that in that medium.
Personally, I don’t want people to buy from me if they don’t need what I’m offering. If I thought people were buying from me just to feel a part of a tribe or losing out on something, I’d feel pretty sad about that, to be honest.
Psychology and persuasion has it’s place, but perhaps it’d be refreshing to slow it all down little and let people have more space to make their decisions on their own terms.
You made me smile 🙂
Brilliant! Couldn’t have been said better.
A few months back, I saw a new product that had social proof overkill. It seriously had like every major a-list blogger giving a testimonial on the sales page. I freaking laughed as if they all bought the product? Or was it more likely someone said ‘can you do my friend a favor and say the product is amazing? Or do you mind if I write my own testimonials and attach your name to it? ‘
So much of what is preached is so far from transparent! It’s very interesting.
But anyways, Loved your comment.
In cases like that, it’s probably true that they all received advanced copies or preview copies. That’s something that happens all the time. Most disclose it.
For instance, I received a copy of Danielle’s FSS book and reviewed it. I loved it and posted a real review.
I don’t do that for products I can’t see, which is why I tweet about Eben Pagan’s launch, but do not “review” it.
You hit it right on the head, Naomi. Now if only we could apply such simple wisdom to the global economy! We’ll start with “don’t borrow more than you can repay”….
After letting my brain stew on this thread for a bit, I think I realize what bothers me about it…
This is an example of ‘high school’. Not the cool kids but the bitter, cynical group who sits at the corner table and complains about the cool kids. Self satisfied hipster grousing that doesn’t really accomplish anything except making the members of this clique feel superior to that clique.
My experience doesn’t jibe. Sorry, it doesn’t. People are talking launch fatigue and “slow down” and I just had a big (for me, certainly) successful launch. Zero plans ro slow down. I see and hear about other successes.
I don’t really do the affiliate marketing thing. I like to make cool stuff and sell it. The other supposed cool kids aren’t a clique really. Near as I can see, they have troubler getting their shit together…but some of them are a lot better at it than others. And so they are successes and they earned it.
Cynical people always scoff at the naiveté of the people who don’t share their cynicism. By definition, that is what they do.
If YOU personally have hit the cynical wall, yes…by all means unsubscribe from a bunch of lists and drop out. Go paint or teach kids to play the oboe or whatever floats your own little boat. Then come back with fresh eyes and make cool stuff.
Great way to stop any discussion: “If you don’t like it, go away. Stop being negative.”
But is it helpful? Not so much, I’m afraid.
Haha, well played Mr. Fabian.
I’ll help Lee out:
“You’re just jealous of my success!”
“If you’d just try harder…”
“Judge not lest ye be judged.”
“Critics are all cynical non-contributors (except when I criticize ‘them’).”
I’ve appreciated and agreed with many of your points thus far, but this comment goes a bit too far into condescension, Lee.
What it fails to address is that many of the people who are conversing and concerned about this are, in fact, some of the successful entrepreneurs that are launching products. What you see as “grousing” can also be seen as compassionate and thoughtful people thinking about the second- and third-order effects of their actions.
The readers of this blog have proven to be anything but cynical – most of them are eternal optimists. So to dismiss their views as being cynical misses the point.
It’s unfortunate that your comment wasn’t nested and thus addressing some particular person or idea; as it stands, it’s easy to read this particular comment as “you’re either a cool kid – launch on! – or you’re a bitter cynic.” Ironically, the particular tone here seems bitter and cynical.
Were I not to address this, there would be three likely outcomes from this last comment:
1) People would ignore you and your position because of the way it reads. (Unfortunate because you have some valid points.)
2) People would decide not to comment because they feel bullied and intimidated by you. (We all lose because there are good perspectives being missed.)
3) People would react to your comment and end up focusing on disproving a false alternative position. (At a certain point, the conversation becomes meaningless and likely devolves further into name calling.)
I hope that none of these options continue to manifest, but, then again, I’m an optimist that way. 🙂
We can disagree – vehemently, even – while still remaining civil. I don’t at all want to squash your alternative and important perspective, but careful how you express it.
I don’t believe you need to slow down at all.
I just think people shouldn’t be fake about it. And if they arn’t being fake, talk about people and things long before their launch day. If you come out of no where saying so and so taught you everything because they now have a big launch, I find it fake.
Also when people suddenly start promoting something that wouldn’t even make sense. That usually isn’t the products fault but the person promoting it.
I think we need to have reasons for everything we’re doing and not looking at the mighty dollar.
You can’t only be about customer experience while you’re launching. Atleast it won’t fly with me and I want to show people that I value them. I want to see them succeed more ever – I cannot think to sell a product or service and never continue the conversation. The customer service doesn’t end when your special launch offer ends.
Oh, I’m sure it won’t stop discussion…
But “don’t be negative” is advice I’ll stick by and so is “don’t assume your customers are fatigued just because you are”.
I’m not sure I agree with that, either. It’s only through being ‘negative’ that we learn where we’re going wrong in the eyes of our client/customer and how we can shift course. Otherwise, we fall into the, “if you don’t have anything nice to say, don’t say anything at all” mentality. And frankly, that doesn’t serve anyone. It’s feedback that helps us evolve, stretch, and become betters creators. I’m not talking about private art here; I’m talking about art that we sell, that people are counting on to match the hype, that people may or may not be using their last couple of bucks to buy. Their opinion matters, REALLY MATTERS, because otherwise we simply join the ranks of shit-sellers.
I loved Yael’s comment (#62) about it not being our ‘duty’ to offer feedback so when it comes, dammit, we had better pay attention. It’s HARD to offer feedback when it flies in the face of a giant marketing push and I think we should honor it IF, it should go without saying, the message comes with respect and openness.
Ultimately, I think the word, ‘negative’ is being confused with ‘respectful disagreement’ and ‘objective review’.
@Erica — I agree that feedback helps sellers and products evolve and improve. That’s why I suggested to Yael, for her specific complaints in her comment #57, that “giving feedback when you don’t find the Promised value is (I feel) your duty” — her counter with comment #62 said she didn’t feel it was her duty to “give unsolicited feedback.”
“Unsolicited” wasn’t any part of my suggestion (to her specific disappointments) that someone who is unhappy with a product give feedback to the Seller on it.
But I’ve rarely seen a store-bought product that doesn’t have the “comments? call 1-800…” printed on it. Have Never seen an online Seller that didn’t ask for questions pre-sale and/or feedback post-sale. Hard to find a Seller that doesn’t solicit feedback.
So, aside from the fact that I personally make a nice living of giving useful ‘unsolicited feedback’ , I’d never suggest it to others, especially not to someone worried about being ‘that customer’ if they made a return.
I love the take-away I got from Erica’s comment (intentional, or not): ‘Negative’ Is Our Own To Define. Just as a complaint can make a positive impact, so can a dissenting voice offer a new POV. (Great to have that here.)
In most fields, hearing from Buyers is vital to Sellers. The Seller doesn’t have to act on the info, but it’s smart of them to hear it.
Marissa’s post and these thoughtful comments remind me that, as a Buyer, I can filter, dilute, or stop the input in many ways. I didn’t hear anyone ask for a stop to Launches, or a slow down to your cycle of next big things — no way! Keep inventing! Keep rocking!
But suggesting a keener awareness of how the fish in one’s pond are affected by a blitz of a solo or tentacled marketing campaign is great advice for anyone in the cyberspace we share.
Charlie,
Am I supposed to be honest? Or I am supposed to factor in peoples reactions and water down my actual thoughts soas to nor offend anyone?
I wasn’t shooting from the hip – sorry, but the thread as a whole is exactly the thing it is criticizing. Even the term “cool kids”is cliquish and smacks of resentment.
This thread has a bid vibe, man…sorry. It strikes me as bitter and cynical. The supposed “cool kids” (which means “successful people”, right?) aren’t going to listen to the advice here…
No, my friend….judge not the clique for it lives here. It’s people defining themselves in a negative way. I guess that’s hard to see or hard to hear, but it’s my honest take. I thogught that was the whole idea. If not, hey – no problem
There is no ‘clique’ here and I don’t sense bitterness or cynicism at all. I think we’re all trying to learn from one another, have conversations that we’re all aching to be a part of; to learn, grow and become better artists and business people.
It’s often very difficult to share a point of view, particularly when many of us are perhaps a little more shy in sharing or speaking up. It’s certainly helpful to do so in an environment where we’re not harshly and certainly incorrectly judged or labeled. I don’t think Charlie was suggesting you water down your message; he was suggesting a respectful delivery.
This is again another false alternative. It seems that you’re saying I presented you with two options:
1. Be honest and offend people.
2. Don’t offend people by not speaking the truth.
It’s a false alternative because it presents the situation as if these are the only two alternatives and then says we have to choose. These are exactly the type of conversational techniques that stifle meaningful discussion – and I don’t have to get into a rant on U.S. politics to show it.
In short, we can be honest without being crass.
I used the term “cool kids” because it was one picture that you portrayed – note that I didn’t say how we were supposed to read your comment, but how it was easy to read your comment. This is also why I said that it was unfortunate that your comment wasn’t nested – there have been people using that paradigm, and it would have been useful to address it head on rather than broad-brush the entire conversation.
You’re right, though, in that it absolutely smacks of resentment and fuels the inaccurate paradigm that you’re correctly questioning.
I’m sorry you feel that it has a bad vibe, but you can unsubscribe to the commentary. Wasn’t that the same advice that you gave someone else about not reading what they don’t want to read? ;p
Whether others read it or not is up to them, and people are busy. It’s not my expectation that it will be read by any specific people, although I have shared it with a few folks that I’d like to read it.
Before I move on, though, I wanted to note that your implied statement “The successful people aren’t going to listen to the advice here” shows that you don’t understand that successful people are listening. And commenting. And thinking. And watching. And noting.
This last statement is the one whose content I most disagree with. When I read the comments, I see a lot of different thoughtgroups represented in one way or the other, and some of these thoughtgroups overlap.
For instance, Danielle LaPorte commented above, but I’ve yet to actually talk or interact much with her – it would be hard to place us in a clique; our audiences overlap, true, but not in the way that the Ittybiz and PF audiences overlap.
Janet Goldstein commented, as well, and she comes from a different network altogether. We have met and talked, but again, we’re not really in a clique.
Nick Hangen’s comments come from yet another cluster. TheMysteriousGirlPie wanders across a wide variety of networks, carrying scraps of ideas and perspectives with her.
I could go on, but my point here is that the clique paradigm is unhelpful because it fails to address the reality of the situation. Furthermore, were we really to look at cliques in the way most people understand them, you and I would be firmly in a clique given our previous interactions.
So, let’s drop the whole clique thing. It’s unhelpful and conjures up feelings of isolation, exclusion, and popularity that dilutes the content of the thread.
What I would like to hear more about is your statement “It’s people defining themselves in a negative way.” What do you mean by that?
Charlie,
I truly appreciate your defense of the group. It has been one of the most “real” conversations I’ve seen out here in awhile and I’ve followed a bunch of new folks because of their kind, thoughtful, insights and I liked Lee’s very first motivating comment.
However, the nice thing about this conversation is I have a better understanding of his viewpoint of many of his potential customers and I will let my money and my friending/follows, or lack thereof, speak for themselves. As in, you may get lots of money but it won’t be mine.
Kelly,
Gee – I’m really curious…what exactly is my attitude that makes me unworthy of your business?
I said negativity is bad. I said resentment is bad. That’s controversial?
I disagree with some of your opinions shared here, but I appreciate that you boldly offered your contrary (“negative”?) perspective!
The Internet fish bowl comparison is one I make often. It’s our job to see that we are in the fish bowl, and that we are creating a “cool clique” because we count ourselves on the outside. There cannot be any inside without an outside, grasshopper.
When I get tired of people hyping me, I unsubscribe, even if I like them personally. It’s boring to me. When I unsubscribe, they cease to bother me.
I rarely recommend a product or launch, and never if I don’t really love it. I did once recommended a product I liked and had a long time client complain about the value for the price. And the person who created the product was rather nasty about refunding her money, so I never recommended it again. Even though it’s a darling of this particular fish bowl. Whatever.
It’s a big world. Don’t let anybody else define it for you, or stop you from getting your message out. It’s up to all of us to get out of our comfort zone, like Naomi’s RV example.
Create! Flourish! Mix it up! And have fun doing it. Yeah~
I don’t have a launch/product to sell or any of that either. But I’ve been taking endless teleclasses/webinars and scoping out the freebies so that I can learn to have a business on line. I am a potential client in other words.
I’ve seen some junk and I’ve seen some great stuff. I’ve noticed that most of the well established ‘yodas of biz’ usually have sites filled with great information. If the free stuff is good, there’s an above average chance that the product being sold will be good too. Sure, the freebies are enticements. But I’ve seen a lot of freebies that bored me into a coma; I’m not likely to buy from that person/group/tribe. I’m not likely to buy from you if all you talk about is your biz or launch. And I’m not likely to buy from you if the only things you tweet are about yourself or someone else in your group who does the same thing – only different. I’ve actually run into a few who won’t even address me since unless I’m subscribed to their RSS or newsletter or whatever. (which I’m not likely to do if you’re a continuously self promoting dork, it’s like volunteering to be spammed.) But I might have been a customer, had I found that person responsive to me and others socially rather than just ticking me off with endless plugs to ‘buy my shit and/or the shit of my group’. (High School!)
A lot of biz blogs lately are all talking about burn out. If all everyone is doing is scratching each others tweets, keeping up on affiliates, and guest blogging when is there time for customer interaction and attention to detail? Why aren’t there more tweets, for example, from people who took your course or class and are raving about it? (that’s one of the reasons I got on twitter to begin with, to hear what others had to say about the products being sold but there almost none of that going on. That would interest me more than customer reviews on your sites because for all I know that’s someone you paid or affiliated with.)
All of this and what others have said here is exactly what each of us faces in the offline world. The cashier who rings us up wrong. The dope that gave us two burgers but forgot the fries. The dork that almost T-boned us because he was talking on the cell and checking his tweets. The cubicle nation has simply started to expand into the internet at light speed. After a while the tweet stream becomes like that message you hear while you’re on hold on the phone: your call is important to us but…)
And why don’t more of you offer Advanced Review Copies of your stuff to people who are outside your fellow colleges and regular customers? You have followers, try a few of them out; if they weren’t interested they wouldn’t be reading you. You want some truthful reviews, that’s how to get it.
There’s a #FridayFollow. Why not start a #WednesdayLaunch?
I’m just saying there’s lots of things all of you can do to change things up if they’re bothering you. If nothing’s bothering you, you’re good to go.
Sheesh, poor high school sure gets a bad rap. 😉
(aside: I teach at a high school. It ain’t the breakfast club anymore, peeps. Just sayin’ you might want to find a new metaphor.)
As a non-launcher (with no desire to) this has been a surprisingly great thread to read. I recently bought Danielle’s product and have been super pleased with it. But I knew I would be because Danielle is successful partly because of what was mentioned by many above – she tapped into an unserved clientele (like moi) and offered and a product with depth and substance. And I promoted it choosing very deliberately not to become an affiliate. I want my recommendations to be clean, clean, clean.
What I see a lot when I’m poking around the circles of the Brian Clarks and the Chris Guillebeaus is something actually reminds me more of my Grandma’s Amway meetings then it does an infomercial – though I can see that, too. If your $ success on the internet is solely based on selling others your ideas about how they can be $ sucesses on the internet, then there is no there, there. It’s a pyramid scheme that is eventually going to crumble.
The second thing I see is a lot of peeps labeling themselves as unconventional, punk rock, non-conformists etc. all doing things the same way. This is a big part of the fatigue, I think. It becomes so obvious that all of us out here can see the man behind the curtain – and we just wanna see you! Surely you iconoclasts can come up with your own rockin spin on how to release your product. (Another thing – I’ve come to hate the word launch.)
I just read an interview with Danielle at some “all-about-launches” website (sorry forgot the name) and Danielle mentioned how she read his launch book and followed his tips and what not and they talked about all the ways she marketed and promoted her launch and I’m sitting there thinking to myself – when are they going to mention the #1 reason she did so well – she writes really good shit and she has tapped into an underserved market. And the parts that most appealed to me were when she strayed from convention – short, succinct sales page, straight up pricing, short tasty preview. Loved it.
Here are some ideas for mixing it up – how about a real+virtual party? Invite any locals to your house at the launch, buy some drinks, some appies, and have your computer and skype set up so that you can interact with them – have someone wander with the webcam and have “famous” guests drop by via skype. Ask your people ( I hate the word tribe, yes, I’m picky about words) to have their own satellite launch parties and invite all their friends and be the local host in their area.
Another idea – instead of being interviewed by just one person – set up a time where their peeps get to come online and ask you questions – connect with your circle’s circle.
Send out review copies to people who are way outside the fish bowl to avoid the Deepak Chopra effect (if you don’t know what I mean by that go to the self-help section of any bookstore and see how many books you can find there that aren’t endorsed by Deepak). And find new people to interview – you guys have become so incestuous that I can predict before I even open the marketing email who is going to be involved. If you need some names – I’d be happy to supply some. There were some really cool women who contributed to a free ebook I put together who would have been awesome interviews but who don’t even seem to be on your radar. People like Tara Hunt, Deanna Zandt, Andrea Learned.
Get your favourite musician to compose a song for your product. Have an online concert. Have a poetry slam. Make your book beautiful with art and photos and have an art show to accompany the release.
My favourite thing that Danielle did, besides creating an excellent product, was her “book trailer” -like a movie trailer.
I’m sure all you creatives and non-conformists can come up with even better ideas.
Above all, create great stuff, please. I follow a lot of authors on twitter and get a lot of review books for my yoga blog – and nobody ever complains about book launch fatigue. I never hear, “Damn, not another book coming out!”
Lianne,
As someone who’s never done a launch, you have a lot of amazing, authentic and unique ideas about better (less stressful) ways to launch.
I think I need to hire you. Are you available for consulting? 😉
You’re right dude, amazing insight.
I think you’ve just found yourself a marketing niche Lianne. (I completely adore the idea of a launch party – we should talk!)
What your comment highlighted is something that has bugged me throughout this entire, compelling thread.
There is the saying that “people spend money to make money”.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but no one is buying EBK or Question The Rules or 3rd Tribe or More Buyers Mastermind to learn how to be a better reiki practitioner, or coach or, in my case, opera singer. We buy these products to help ourselves market better in order to sell our own products more successfully. Right?
As Lee rightly pointed out, the average person has no idea who Naomi, Chris, Dave, Johnny et al are. My sister is a recent marketing grad and even she had no bloody idea who Seth Godin is. (True.)
The people who swim in this goldfish bowl of ours are all on the same lists, looking for the same solutions. Some of it is completely relevant and timely (like Danielle’s Firestarter was for me) and some of these products appears to be just another collection of chats with the same people, every single time.
But because we are all looking for marketing advice it’s inevitable that the methods begin to shout louder than the content. We all know about the United Front – the launch day affiliate bombardment fatigue makes that perfectly clear. If we don’t know about Jeff Walker and PLF then we know Dave’s version of it.
So this seems to me to be a problem of launching, not with the products themselves.
As Danielle said, there has been crap out there for years. And excellent marketing does not ensure a great product. (We have years of Hollywood rubbish, Coke and cigarettes as proof.)
There will be always be great marketing products competing in the same space with slapped together rip-offs. But how can we really start distinguishing one from the other when everyone is blindly following the same techniques, over and over again?
For example, if I see another “this is where I’m supposed to put something tacky in a PS but I won’t because that’s tacky but even so buy my stuff because it’s awesome”
I’ll scream. That’s not authentic. That’s not 3rd tribe. That’s not even irony. It’s hypocrisy.
Please let us take Lianne’s suggestions to start a new, authentic and unique launch formula. One without the cynicism attached. Where we throw the old dogma out and do something different because we have an obligation to test and experiment. There should be a myriad ways to use the old-school persuasion/social proof techniques – why aren’t we being more creative?
“”””But how can we really start distinguishing one from the other when everyone is blindly following the same techniques, over and over again?
For example, if I see another “this is where I’m supposed to put something tacky in a PS but I won’t because that’s tacky but even so buy my stuff because it’s awesome” I’ll scream. “””
Word. You took the Word(s) out of my mouth Nat. I’m on board with everything you said & then some! This is exactly why this conversation is so important and getting so much attention. More than getting creative even, I think it’s vital to connect with our Why’s and find ways that are authentically linked to our purpose, personalities & clients.
I’m curious about this idea of a “new, authentic and unique launch formula.”
Here’s my belief, and we’ll see if it’s true- that the essential principles are the same no matter what. The principles being:
– provide high quality offering
– speak to a need within your market
– give people enough information to feel safe buying in a way they like to access it
– give them enough notices so that it can enter their awareness
– give them enough time so they can make a considered choice
– give them a reason to buy now rather than later- whether it’s an internal reason “do you want to handle this problem now or later?” or an external one “I’ve only got 10 of these.”
Those essential principles I don’t think have changed for centuries. It’s just how we do it. Jeannette has put into practice every one of those principles, just differently than say, Chris Guillebeau did with his latest launch.
What do you think? Did I miss something?
I’d add:
– Leverage the power of listening to your gut and doing what feels right.
– Know who your people are and what works for *them*, how do they want to be sold to?
– Come from a spirit of service.
– Do it for the gift of giving people what they need, not just for the numbers.
– Make it about abundance – not scarcity. Nix the compelling “buy it now or you’ll suffer” reasons in favour of “this is how you know if you’re ready to buy”
Yes, radical and yet, IMHO, this is not putting people off or leaving money on the table, this is making the customer more important than your bottom line.
And when people get that you really care about them, they WILL buy from you and your bottomline WILL increase as a result. If not today, then tomorrow.
That’s a brave, trusting step to take, to know that abundance & sales will happen in their time, and provide a safe environment for buyers/clients to make choices without instilling urgency or fear of losing out in them.
Like I said in an earlier post, create, let people know it’s there, market the way YOU are aligned with, know and trust that the people out there who need only what you can give them, will find their way to you.
I haven’t created or sold a product yet, but I have bought many, many products from people here and elsewhere and this is what works for me.
The point here is that everyone has a different reaction and what works for some won’t work for others. It all depends on who your audience is. Right?
I’m curious if anybody’s had success without the need to buy now. The slow-burn style launch instead of having pre-launch messages, and everybody buying on a specific launch date and the price going up or program closing after a limited time period.
When a new book comes out, often I wait to get the paperback. I have more incentive, actually, to wait to buy it than to buy it now because I prefer the feel of paperbacks and they’re less expensive. That isn’t to say I never buy new books–but I rarely know ahead of time that they’re about to come out and only sometimes do I buy them as soon as I see them. I usually flip through them on a few different occasions before I buy.
It seems that the current line of thinking is that this is the “wrong” way to launch a product, but I wonder if it could work.
Speaking strictly for myself, although I’m a sucker for early half-off sales, feeling pressured to ‘buy now’ or have to pay double the price in two months (when I’d actually have time to read or participate) has *stopped* me from buying things or sign up for programs I’d otherwise be into. And even though the common wisdom is to do several pre-launch messages (etc.), people often do buy things that have already been out for a while (they missed the launch)…
One of my favorite bloggers puts out great content and, once every week or two, will link to sales pages in his own blog posts with material covering aspects of his articles. I never see it as selling (even though it is) but simply as a service he is providing for his readers–if they need help on that topic, they know where to go to look for it. Otherwise, they don’t click. I talked to him about his strategy once; if there’s specific items he’s thought about pitching and writes articles based on them and he says it’s the other way around–he writes articles and throws any solutions that seem relevant, including products.
Telling me as a customer that I have to buy now or pay quadruple the price doesn’t seem like a service. I can understand if it’s a member-based program with a specific start and end date, but when it’s not, it seems a bit manipulative. Is there any real benefit to buying now for the buyer, rather than the seller, other than arbitrary price increases? (I’ve engaged in the practice as well, so I’m trying to deconstruct it, not point fingers.)
Hey, just connected with you on twitter 🙂 I’m not seeing a right way or a wrong way, just different ways to reach your audience. I like the example you gave of that blogger – some may see it as being too salesy with each post but if you’re his client base and it’s working for you, then it’s perfect for him.
I’ve bought products with deadlines and sometimes I haven’t. As I get savvier and learn about internet marketing though, the idea of a deadline makes me feel manipulated, UNLESS it’s for a course that’s got a start & end date. All this means is, the people who I’ll now buy from are the ones who get how I want to be sold to, and do it that way.
People who still need deadlines to buy (and I’m not saying deadlines are bad – just that I don’t like them) ie, who procrastinate too much and would never buy unless they had a compelling reason, they’re the ones who these launches will work for and who they are meant to reach.
So, even though I’ve said a lot on this topic, I’m still going with no right or wrong way, just the most effective way for *your* (whoever) audience.
I can’t believe I’ve spent all day here, talking up a storm .. guess I had a lot to say huh 😉 @TiaSparkles getting her Sparkles back..
Oh and the thing about common wisdom? It’s common but not always wise, at least, not forever 🙂
Time for a new vanguard but only if one’s brave &/or foolish enough to change the status quo! Um. Yeah.
We’ve had success with slow-burn launch. We published Unveiling the Heart of Your Business in 2005- we did have a “launch” where there was a pre-release price which supported me in getting it done.
The price has basically been the same since 2005. We’ve occasionally had promos, maybe once or twice a year where there’s an additional bonus if you buy during a one-week period, but the price doesn’t change.
We consistently sell this program month in and month out for several years now- it’s been a stable part of our revenue, and lots of people seem to continue loving it.
I really like it- people buy when they want.
Twitter Rockstar was my first product and has been selling solid ever since 2008 when I wrote it in Afghanistan.
I actually made it because I was angry about a Twitter ebook I bought, and it turned out to be my 2nd most popular product, all-time.
Price hasn’t changed since launch, aside from a few sales.
Hi Mark,
You see, when you write a list like that it sounds so delightfully inviting! We totally agree – you say “it’s just how we do it” and this is exactly the point.
I’m not questioning the fundamentals of the process. But I do see how the digital and social media landscape have morphed these basics into something quite pervasively different.
When Frank Kern and his boys dominated the internet marketing landscape with email blasts, there was no Twitter or Facebook. The instant sharing of testimonials and RT’s serving as immediate and easy endorsements are making it harder to discern what is a recommendation and what is a trigger-happy RT that looks good.
This is what causes the launch fatigue – this dogma that an email blast from everyone who is anyone in your niche will serve to ignite a buying frenzy.
I don’t think people are buying it anymore. Honestly, the whole scarcity thing? Look at how many people bought in to Danielle’s pay what you can for Firestarter. That wasn’t “buy it now or else it will cost you more in a week”. It was buy it today and pay whatever you can. The scarcity was still there but the appeal so was so much greater. And kinder I might add. This is generous. And the goodwill will linger.(For the record, I still paid the full price.)
This is how to take the same principles and then apply them differently. This is what I meant by a call for a “new, authentic and unique launch formula.” It’s not about the moves. It’s all in the execution.
If Leanne gives away a copy of her book at the moment her customer was about to pay, this is a beautifully powerful way to manage an expectation. She has also encouraged reciprocity – the client is much more likely to want to buy something in the future, or recommend her more fervently, yes?
It may not be a technique that pleases every marketing whizz out there, but the point is it resonates with Lianne (whether she even does it intentionally or not) and it evidently resonates with her clients too.
If she is not making as much money as her accountant would have her believe is possible, perhaps she is nurturing a better lifetime ROI instead? (What would you rather have? $2,500 now and never see that person ever again? Or a constant drip of perfectly aligned customers because you take the time to see the person hiding, shaking nervously behind the wallet?
So I am desperate to align myself personally with a style of launching that doesn’t make me sigh every time I open my mailbox. That doesn’t cause me to shout at the double-standards of it all? Does this make sense?
Launching shouldn’t stop. But the products must get better. And the launches waaaay more creative.
Yes – execution- exactly. I totally agree. You make points similar to what I said waaay above in this very long discussion. I think we’re on the same page- that the social media overlapping has caused things to get a little more ugh.
I still think there’s a place for urgency, as you say. But even the price jump. But it has to be a legitimate need. We did a price jump on our course after the early-bird, but OMG it’s so much easier to take good care of people when they register early than when they register at the last minute.
We did have a related price jump for the homestudy at the same time- but afterwards it gnarled at us- that price jump- we did it a little bit on automatic pilot, because we’re not used to selling the homestudy and the course at the same time.
And, for the record, we haven’t let anyone pay the increased after-the earlybird deadline price for the home study- and it feels a lot better.
It’s also that we’ve all become more savvy about marketing and persuasion in general. We know so much more about scarcity, about social proof, about authority, commitment and consistency – so when we see these techniques being broad-stroked all over the launch landscape we bcome a little more immune. At least, I do. Which is also a little sad, really, as I have become so much more suspicious as a potential buyer than I would normally.
Again, agree on all points! Ps: That’s Jeannette who gave the book away & that’s exactly the point – do what you resonate with, what you’re aligned with ie, follow your gut & feel good, which in her case, comes from generosity of spirit.
Actually many people complain about book launches in author circles. And I’m already bored of book trailers (yes, have seen many already). But yes, excellent points, especially this:
“The second thing I see is a lot of peeps labeling themselves as unconventional, punk rock, non-conformists etc. all doing things the same way. This is a big part of the fatigue, I think.”
and P.S.
please lose the obsession with the phrases “6 figures” & “6 figure income”. Meaningless.
Fantastic point Lianne! Thanks for calling this one out, I’m guilty of it too and every time I’ve said “6 figures” it’s felt like falling prey to the myth of success = 6 figures.
Bollocks!
When “the launch” that’s spurred this talk happened, I commented on the post Charlie wrote about how surprised I was to find out who all was involved. I was still playing safe and choosing my words carefully then, but yeah it really IS the cool kids syndrome.
I joined Third Tribe when it started because I wanted “in” and didn’t want to be left out. 4 months in, I’ve hardly stepped in there and while that’s totally MY fault, if I go deeper into why, it’s because my reasons for joining were all wrong.
Join now, so you can become one of us, a “non icky marketer” like us. Join now cos maybe by association you’ll become cool too. Whether this was the message or not, it’s what I and many others secretly felt. I’m saying it now, even though it makes me feel really stupid to admit to this. Heck, who doesn’t want to feel a part of things?
With Jeannette Maw’s Good Vibe University site, none of those feelings arose. I didn’t join simply to be a part of something, I joined for the product and community, not the desire to be “one of them”.
She never marketed it with price deadlines or on the basis of who was in there. She and the community ARE what makes it what it is, as no doubt Third Tribe does, and yet, I never get the feeling I’m not cool if I’m not in there.
People only sign up as affiliate and promote her stuff when they’ve experienced it. And I’ve never seen affiliate emails from any of her associates, ever.
Even her own product launches are a single email saying “hey, i wrote that book i talked about, here it is”. Then, it’s on her website for anyone to buy anytime they want. That’s IT. Not multiple emails, no 30 affiliate emails in one day, no hard core launch that makes one cringe.
The bottomline is: differentiating on the non-icky factor has lost its lustre and because of audience saturation, something new is needed. I love the example someone gave of creating a great product and making it available for whoever needs it, when they need it instead of creating artificial scarcity.
Right, I’m off to read the rest of the responses now. This is one heck of a discussion and I am so very glad people are being honest and open. It’s what gives me the courage to as well. @TiaSparkles
ps: you can check Jeannette out at @GoodVibeCoach or goodvibeblog.com to see for yourself.
That’s why I only sell products promising 8 figures now. LOL
Wow, just read over this whole thread again since there’s such good discussion happening. And I’ve been thinking about it a lot… Here’s my assorted smattering of thoughts:
What I’d like (this is my ideal):
*Whether I’m reading a blog or hanging out on social media networks (I’ve gotten better discussion on fb than twitter myself), I want to feel like my ideas, experience and even opinion are valued, whether I buy a thing or not (or whether or not I am commenting on that thing thing I bought). I understand that a business must realistically give the most energy to their customers, but I don’t want to feel like I’m only valued IF I’m a customer (or if I buy the highest-end product.)
*Ideally, I’d want to buy from people who are acting like it’s their first launch instead of coasting on previous achievements. If someone was just starting a business, they would get customers things on time, make sure their ad copy was honest, probably ask for feedback of some sort–all these things that sometimes seem to be forgotten when someone is just ‘coasting’–or perhaps focusing on a higher end product. I think Seth Godin wrote something at some point asking what things would be like if you couldn’t get any new customers. I know there’s time to transition, get outside help and do things differently in a business, but if I walk in at the middle (and haven’t been around for the past 5 years when the person was putting out stellar content and products) and my only experience is negative, I definitely notice more than someone who’s followed the person selling a product longer would.
Girlpie; great points! But I guess I figure if someone is selling hype instead of good meaty content they are, on some level, aware of what they are doing and don’t care. Or they care a little but not enough to not do it. And so I wonder what giving feedback will accomplish, other than tick people off and make me look like a jerk. Some sellers may ask for feedback (not all do) but I’m not sure all are truly open to it. Unless it’s from someone they’re sending free stuff to for review.
When I would be more and less likely to give feedback… If a person doesn’t answer their own e-mail (for example), I’m really unlikely to give feedback. I don’t want a bunch of people I’d otherwise love to get coffee with sitting around talking about how I dissed a product. (This might never happen, but it’s what I imagine in my head.) Having worked in customer service, I know how grating this can be over time and it’s much different than telling someone who asked what I think they could improve on. So I love the post-product survey. That way I can be honest but also write good things…
Some of the products I was dissatisfied feel like they were hastily put together to make money, and were more about the person putting it together than about offering substance to their reader/listener. For example, if I BUY an audio file or teleclass and I hear the instructor saying things like “you should google _____” it kind of makes me wonder. That sounds like something that would be said to the person e-mailing or making an off-topic question as a blog response or on twitter, not for a paying customer who signed up for specific information. On some level I have to admire someone who can whip together a half-assed product, do some really sexy packaging and get folks to buy it, but on another level I just feel ripped off. A lot of times people buy products because they’d rather not spend the time doing google searches but want things in one place. This could be a simple mistake, but it could be laziness–maybe I shouldn’t be second guessing people and assuming the latter…
Prices going up–in a recent product push I was on the fence about (*love* the free content I’ve gotten and think it’d be immensely useful, but want to absorb and put into practice other things I’ve recently learned, so the timing was off for getting saturated in new stuff) I read a “buy today or the price will go up by twenty bucks a month when it’s available again at an undisclosed future time” e-mail. Well, I didn’t want it ‘today’ and when the price goes up, it’s a couple hundred bucks more a year than I want to spend, so I won’t be buying it. We all have choices to make, and I understand the need for a short-term push, but I wish there was room for customers to figure out appropriate timing, and shop around with thoughtful deliberation instead of the high-pressure sales for no real reason (that I can see). I’ve done the half off for two weeks thing too, so it’s something I have to look into as well. (Janet’s post 58 expressed this way better than I did.)
Another ideal: “Who is this not for”–this in a legitimate way, not something obvious (like, “this is an e-book, therefore, you should not buy it if you don’t like to read. “) but something actually helpful. A fitness member site that had programs does this really well, basically saying the program was not for people who want to follow their own plan rather than the prescribed plan for those six months, for people looking to gain muscle rather than lose fat, for anybody not within a certain range (people already in near- perfect shape wouldn’t benefit from it), etc. Did they lose sales by specifying that? Probably. Will they gain sales over time because of it? Most definitely. An online marketing for freelance writers course I took was the same way. I e-mailed the instructor and he wrote to tell me that success following his workshops depends on the developed state of my writing talent (getting into higher paid markets depends on having what those markets demand), that learning about marketing/planning/etc. won’t help m e until I put it into practice and that his classes are more useful for folks with more experience than me. I appreciated his candor, signed up right away, loved it, got my ROI and then some, etc. But how many people will tell you “my program is not for you if ________” when asked? Short term sales vs. long-term success may hang on the balance. Again, perhaps it is my own cynicism that wonders if people just don’t care. It is lovely to read people saying that they don’t want people to buy things they wouldn’t benefit from, but I’m not convinced everyone feels that way.
Slightly off-topic: since Thesis and Scribe were mentioned as good products… Those are things I’d love to see unbiased reviews on. I do a lot of work with SEO for several of my clients. I’ve looked at Scribe and seen affiliates raving about it, what I didn’t see (though it may be out there) was an unbiased review letting me know if basic keyword research combined with good writing would be just as dandy for in-content SEO or not, or how it’s different from the free WordPress plug-ins. Thesis: same thing. Yes, I hear it’s got clean code that’s good for SEO and is easily customizable and looks nice, but a lot of themes look nice. What about some of the Genesis child themes? Will I be eternally doomed to the bottom of search engine listings if my new site has a different theme than Thesis? Is it possible that some web designers are really comfortable with it and that’s why they push it?
Unbiased reviews–I love the site <a href="http://www.infonotmercial.com="< for giving really awesome honest feedback on infomercial products with the customer in mind, but it's a bit different in that I don't think they hang out in the same circles as the infomercial creators do so it really truly is unbiased. We are often biased in ways we don't even realize. (I'm reading How We Decide by Jonah Lehrer and he talks about blind taste tests where people prefer more expensive wines, for instance, unless they aren't told the price). Getting really clear on what we want out of something as a consumer, what our hidden expectations are, is a great thing to do (as GirlPie mentioned) but sometimes understandably gets lost in the shuffle.
What a fresh and candid conversation about the good, bad and ugly of social media and internet marketing. Stunning. Charlie, thanks for hosting it. Marissa, thanks for writing it. PF commenters, thanks for bringing it all the way live.
The thing that has most triggered my fatigue is the cliched echos of crowdsourced opinions. A Chief Pebble makes a declaration in the cyber-sea that X is the shiniest sheen out there, and soon thereafter backup ripples sing the same song. Refrained. Rehashed. Retweeted. Ad nauseum.
Sometimes the high hallelujah praise is deserved. Sometimes it feels more like banal bandwagoning. Because I am certain there are more than 23 radiant minds with make-you-gasp creations. But for some odd reason, under-the-radar-greats often stay under-the-radar without the momentuous benefit of the ripple effect. Why is that?? As much talk as there is about the virtues of widening one’s circle and expanding one’s network, the gravitational pull toward the same Chief Pebbles is annoyingly irresistible.
The good news is that honest conversations like this thread may start to reveal a shore of many pebbles of interest.
Taste is subjective. So why do we tend to rely on others to tell us what kind of wine we like? #wecandrinkforourselves
A post on Penelope Trunk’s blog, Brazen Careerist, introduced me to a Harvard Business Review article, “The Making of an Expert” (July/August 2007). Below is a relevant excerpt from that article:
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“In 1976, a fascinating event referred to as the “Judgment of Paris” took place. An English-owned wineshop in Paris organized a blind tasting in which nine French wine experts rated French and California wines””ten whites and ten reds. The results shocked the wine world: California wines received the highest scores from the panel. Even more surprising, during the tasting the experts often mistook the American wines for French wines and vice versa.
Two assumptions were challenged that day. The first was the hitherto unquestioned superiority of French wines over American ones. But it was the challenge to the second””the assumption that the judges genuinely possessed elite knowledge of wine””that was more interesting and revolutionary. The tasting suggested that the alleged wine experts were no more accurate in distinguishing wines under blind test conditions than regular wine drinkers””a fact later confirmed by our laboratory tests.”
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I love this post for challenging previously unquestioned assumptions about launching and connecting. Salut!
Like the example/excerpt you chose above. A little off topic, but, if anyone wants to learn more about the taste test mentioned above, I highly recommend watching the movie, “Bottleshock”.
This movie should be a ‘must watch’ for all entrepreneurs… a story of a man in Napa, in the 70’s, who risked everything to live his dream. Pretty amazing!
Someone I respect DM’d me asking who I was referring to in my comment. As I started my response to her, I realized I wanted to be as open with my clarification as I was with my original comment.
So, when I say “Chief Pebble”… I am referring to whoever comes to your mind without me even mentioning a particular name. Whoever has enough influence and presence that they have become a meme that now occupies space in your head.
I believe the fish in our particular pond are smart, independent thinkers. Early adoptin’ pioneers. And when a person rises to great popularity in this pond, it is usually the case that their stuff is great… because a mass of sharp minds won’t be dooped for long.
However, for every Seth Godin (whose daily thoughts are canonized), there are 1,000 dark horses* hoping to find their way to the Winner’s Circle, too.
……………………………………………………
* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_horse
The pyramid power structure that supports the success of the Chief Pebbles depends on the existence of the 1000 true fans (dark horses) that all someday believe they will become a Chief Pebble too.
I think we are in need of some specific examples if not specific names.
1. I unsubscribed from one of the commentor’s here newsletter (and they are filled with good intentions) because I was NOT getting a newsletter, but a launch notification every 3 days or so. Even once per week for any type of subscribed option is TOO MUCH.
2. Three big names here wanted affiliates. I emailed and asked to be one. I presume because I’m not (yet) a ‘big name’ they never responded.
3. Twitter is a telling tale to me. People who started small, that I believed in and promoted heavily, never bothered following me in return. We all check our own @signs! If someone is promoting the hell out of you because they believe, you owe them the courtesy of hearing what they have to say about things besides you.
4. I’ve submitted guest posts to ‘big names’ who I feel I have a relationship with (i.e. we’ve talked on the phone). It is ok not to use the guest post (could be shite, folks! my ego is tiny), but you should at least acknowledge its receipt and why you are choosing not to use it, make recommendations on who might, etc. THAT is caring for your tribe. This happened to me twice.
And, I love @daniellelaporte and I’m about to pay for her product. But, because I can’t find a non-affiliate review, I question a strict “no refund” policy. HOWEVER, I think you mitigated that with “pay what you can day”. I have, in fact, bought from people I really believed in and found the products were disappointing.
I agree we are all swimming in a small pond, but it is an easy pond to swim in because “our folks” are social media communicators. Not everyone is and it is inherently implied that launching involves almost exclusively the use of social media (and newsletters).
If you want to see someone absolutely managing the hell out of their (large)tribe right, look to Jeannette Maw (@goodvibecoach). She built slowly, responds consistently, gives away tons of free content but also lets you know when there is a new CD or e-book available…generally in ONE blog post and at the bottom of ONE newsletter. Her tribe loves her. That is enough.
Kelly!! I just wrote about Jeannette and how she’s doing it her way, unlike ANYONE else, 2 posts above!! How freakin’ awesome to scroll down a little and see you talk about her too 🙂 Sheer delight! Yep, she’s unique and a huge success because of how she really, truly puts her tribe FIRST. Others say they do, she really DOES.
Yep! I interviewed her awhile back for my blog. She is absolutely lovely…
Prime example. I’d been considering buying one of her info products. She tweeted ab liking my newest newsletter. I tweeted back that I was RIGHT THEN on her site thinking of buying the product. Check email 5 minutes later and it is mine. (DISCLAIMER: I’ve done some work for Jeannette, but was a rabid fan long before!).
Not necessary. I would have AND have paid for her products before. But does this build increased loyalty or what?
I hear ya. When she first launched Pray Rain Journal, I tried to buy but the link wasn’t working. I emailed her and she said she’d look into it, and in the meantime, SENT ME A COPY just like that!
You could have blown me away with a feather – who does that!?? I am madly in love with her just cos of these little, highly generous and amazing things she does.
Never met anyone like her and you’re bang on when you say she elicits love and loyalty from us by giving first and foremost. Esp when she doesn’t have to, cos I would buy anything from her, anytime.
Perhaps, for our comfort level, it would be the very best thing if ANYONE reviewing ANY product gave a disclosure as to whether or not they are profiting from the sale financially or via a quid pro quo agreement?
Kelly, although I am an affiliate for Danielle’s product, I reviewed it before that was the case. I have a review on my blog and on YouTube if you’d like to search for it.
It’s expensive, but it’s fantastic, and I have no problem telling you to check it out.
I generally don’t like no-refund policies, so I can understand your frustration.
Hi Kelly et al…
In October ’09 it became illegal in the US to not disclose affiliate status when promoting or reviewing a product- it’s up to an $11,000 fine if this doesn’t happen. There seems to be a lot of ‘between the lines’ in the writing of the law but is intended by the FTC for consumer protection. Here is a link to the Federal Trade Commission and the nuts and bolts of the law: http://ftc.gov/opa/2009/10/endortest.shtm
Hope that’s helpful 🙂
I second your point of view. Thank you for having the courage to give voice to this. As an aside, I realize this morphs the conversation slightly but that’s what’s so critical about these conversations… information bubbles to the surface that seems peripheral to the subject at hand but is actually a key component of the core issue.
I also had the experience you just described and while I’m not comfortable pointing fingers, I would like to share it because I seem to be hearing rumblings of it everywhere. This tells me it’s a sentiment that’s floating just below the surface and an experience many of us are having.
Firstly, I don’t know that anyone owes me a ‘follow’ just because I dig what they’re doing. BUT! If I have heavily supported you and you’re certainly aware that I’ve heavily supported you, AND I’ve been a client (therefore financially supported you as well), then yes; it would seem reasonable to anticipate a ‘follow’. It just seems like good business sense – a means of keeping your finger on the pulse of what your supporters are saying about you, your product, and your market as a whole. After all, we ARE your market.
Of course, the “pre-launch” email came and I responded, of course. You know what I was met with?
Crickets.
Now, that seems a very strange strategy to me, particularly when you’ve asked for a response. Ego? Perhaps. I see it as a simple matter of manners. I mean, for crying out loud, an auto-response expressing, “thanks for responding” would have been better than silence. In the social media sphere? That’s the fastest way to slowly piss off the very people who were rooting so loudly for you.
Then the tweets. Eeshk. All I heard about were how many customers were racking up. Frankly, the work felt shadowed; it was about the numbers and not the creation. The launch; not the tribe/community. The $ that were being collected; not the PEOPLE who were supporting it.
It felt gross.
I’m a “little name”. Hell, I just started! But I think another component to the launch exhaustion we’re all feeling has less to do with the overload irritation and more to do with sensing we’re merely and ONLY a brick in the financial wall.
I’m with Jen Louden and Randi Buckley on this one.
Maybe I am way out there, but we should be going and joining other ponds not to sell to people but to get to know people.
I don’t want anybody following me just to sell to me.
I don’t do affiliate marketing. I talk about products I like that I’ve paid for because I like them.
I only help with launches of stuff that I like, and I am never, ever ever financially compensated for them.
I won’t do affiliate marketing, because fundamentally, it raises the costs of the products to the consumers. I don’t like the idea of adding 33-50% to the cost of something (and the retail/wholesale model doesn’t really apply here. We can say it does, but really, when I go to a real-life retail experience it’s different).
We can do some magic costing, and say that by reaching a larger audience, we can lower our cost of creation and drop the price further, but if you look at the cost of many of these products, the prices do not get significantly cheaper if a thousand people buy it vs. a hundred. And it should.
I also don’t over-promote my own stuff.
I like Randi’s nonchalant 85% rule.
With this unwillingness to play the launch/affiliate game, do I lose sales? You bet.
Am I making money like some of you? Not even close.
But do my clients come back over and over again and buy and tell their friends? Yes. Indeed.
And do I have a significant number of sales due to word of mouth? Yes. I do.
Fundamentally, your opinion matters. Selling your opinion to others in order to promote their products can make your opinion suspect.
Ah, an advocate for ethical standards in business–how refreshing! Thank you, Bridget.
Loving the discussion here, and even more am loving what evolves from it – what I hope will be a more effective way of incorporating social media into our marketing efforts.
Thanks, Tia and Kelly, for reinforcing that my approach of interacting with the tribe works. My marketing guy couldn’t disagree with you more, though. He’s consistently hammering me about leaving money on the table because I’m not more aggressive with promotions.
Even after I pointed him toward this post and these insightful comments as proof that it is absolutely time to do something new in this arena, he’s still telling me to be more visible and vocal in what I offer.
But like Tia said, it’s not (all) about the money. If I alienate readers with constant pushes, promotions and launches, even if I get the bank account to prove it works, I wouldn’t call that successful. At least not according to my definition.
Maybe that’s what it all comes down to – what are we really looking to achieve with our work?
Jeannette,
Let me try to make the case you should really be listening to your marketing guy…
If your goal is to help the world, you do that by more effective marketing.
If your goal is to get your message or art out there, you do that by effective marketing.
Ineffective marketing doesn’t help anyone. Period. It doesn’t help you or the world.
If you have something of value to offer, market it effectively. And the reality is — there are well established, proven techniques that work. They work for a reason, too. It’s not arbitrary.
You aren’t helping anyone by leaving money on the table. That means you’re missing getting your message out or that you aren’t making a fair value for your work.
This is a really well known quote by Marianne Williamson – but think of it applied to your business, your art and above all – your marketing.
“Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourselves, Who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, fabulous? Actually, who are you not to be? You are a child of God. Your playing small does not serve the world. There is nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people won’t feel insecure around you. We are all meant to shine, as children do. We were born to make manifest the glory of God that is within us. It’s not just in some of us; it’s in everyone. And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. As we are liberated from our own fear, our presence automatically liberates others.”
Think of marketing as your chance to shine. Don’t be small…
Lee,
I agree with you 100% on this.
I may prefer art over “products,” and I might prefer artful marketing over spam, but I’m not afraid to share the things I’m proud of.
I don’t think anyone would think of Jeannette as being “small.” She’s been very effective in her market. People respond to her strongly. I have no idea what her financial situation is, but I’m going to guess that she’s doing fine. And there are plenty of people who have been deeply helped by her. There you go.
That whole “leaving money on the table” argument is painful out of context.
We each have a part to play. I prefer the whole “do small things with great love” – I resonate a lot more strongly with that than “do epic shit” (Charlie knows this- we’ve discussed it, and I get where he’s coming from. 😉 )
If you’re doing well, if you’re helping a good number of people, if you don’t have strong guidance in your heart to do otherwise, or conversely if you have strong guidance in your heart that you are doing the right thing, then leaving money on the table may be the best action possible.
That said, there is an element for many helpers in the world that they don’t want to “bother” people and that can translate into an unwillingness to be visible, which can be a real problem with showing up in the marketplace.
That issue is worth facing and working through. But it doesn’t necessarily translate into any particular marketing tactic or strategy.
Just to let you know I’m still awake and listening. 😉
Lee / Nathan,
I think you got the wrong idea here. No one’s saying Jeannette’s marketing is not effective. In fact, it’s VERY effective in that she reaches those who want exactly what she has to offer. I hired her as my coach back in Sept 08 after following her blog for a few short months because she was/is real, genuine and caring – and THAT’S her marketing USP.
No matter what her marketing guy says, she is definitely not small by any means! Jeannette markets by being true to herself, by blogging, word of mouth, referrals, creating fantastic products, reaching out to people, creating trust, credibility and and a reputation that induces loyalty in her clients (and sales).
I cannot think of a single better marketing “tactic” than being generous and still making sales.
She’s making 6 figures and loving her work. So by leaving money on the table, maybe she’s not gonna make 7 figures *yet* but in the long run, she’s got goodwill, faith and a VERY good consistent income stream which could well lend itself to a million a year – IF she wanted that.
This is marketing done right and done effectively – when someone like me answers questions about her because I like, trust, know and believe in her. The real, ultimate truth of marketing that works.
I don’t think anyone suggested that she’s small, and really…size doesn’t matter.
What matters is being happy and having happy customers.
I’m simply saying that avoiding marketing isn’t a proper solution to what we’re talking about here.
I’m sure you’d agree that she can’t give away free copies to everyone. However, in “selectively” giving them away she’s still marketing, albeit in a different way.
But here’s the thing…if you’re Jeanette and you are brand new to the scene, then how do you get noticed when there is so much noise?
I think that’s the bigger issue here.
Blogging alone isn’t enough, and neither is social media, banner ads, or PPC.
Even an organic movement requires some sort of movement. Right?
“Think of marketing as your chance to shine. Don’t be small…” that’s what I was responding to with the small comment answer.
I agree with you – you can’t not market and you can’t give it all away.
She’s not doing either of those things – we were talking about not marketing like everyone else, with the big # of affiliate emails in one day (the thing that started this whole discussion) – I was pointing out that there are people doing it differently and still seeing good success.
How to get noticed is by being consistent in your marketing efforts and looking at the big picture, coming from a spirit of giving and wanting to make a positive impact in this world, knowing your reason WHY, knowing your goals are, being authentic and staying on course with that.
I’m new, just a year old into Entrepreneurship, and I’m getting noticed slowly, by making a stand for things I’m passionate about, by being brave enough to do it my way, by learning and growing and applying strategies I resonate with, and mostly by knowing that it’s not an overnight game – but being in for the long haul, focusing on sustainability and the people I’m here to help.
Again, I didn’t once say she’s not marketing, I said she’s marketing in a unique way. 🙂
I think we’re on the same page, just coming from a different place.
Part of the issue with the miscommunication in this thread is that we all think we know what everyone is talking about, but we’re all a bit off what’s really being said.
That’s not a problem…just makes it fun 🙂
LoL … It makes for some very passionate discussions, that’s for sure 🙂 Yep, I did think we were on the same page too!
I keep saying things that I don’t think are controversial and then getting jumped on for how wrong I am with the occaisonal co mention of how I’m SO wrong that I’m not worthy of someones money.
Sorry. I suck, apparently.
I was commenting based on she said her marketing guy was saying which my unworthy little brain took to mean “she isn’t being as effective as she could be” and thaf I was trying to be encouraging and say here’s why you should be more effective.
That’s it. Sorry .
I shall now crawl back to my hole.
It reminds me of the story about the blind sages describing the different parts of the same elephant they’re feeling. I’ve lamented about the end of the elephant you’ve been describing – I know I’ve been on that end many, many times, too.
For what it’s worth, I saw that you were trying to be helpful and encouraging. Thank you.
Perhaps “the hole” wasn’t meant to be funny, but it gave me a good chuckle. Thank you for that, too.
Eek. Don’t go that far, Lee, even if someone had an extreme reaction. I think what you said is a fair conclusion to jump to in general.
Because this conversation has so far centered on experienced marketers and business people who are in general having success in getting clients and revenue, how fatigued some people are with launches, and examples/thoughts of how to do it differently, I’m more wondering why she disagrees with her marketing person.
Because of who Jeannette is and how well she’s done with her business, I think it warrants a different conclusion than the one you came up with. If she’s disagreeing with her marketing guy, it’s not because she’s a noob who is nervous about dipping her toe in the water. I’m going to guess she has some fairly strong guidance and clear reasons for her position.
In many cases I think your response is dead-on, many people need that encouragement. And in this case, I think there may be wisdom in the resistance she’s expressing.
Also, man I just take a moment to isolate the quote and acknowledge Lee for bringing it to the table. In its entirety, I think it succinctly articulates what everyone here is saying… we’re just all coming at it from 360 degrees.
Thanks, Lee.
Er, “can”. Yeesh.
hi Lee,
Just for the record–though I don’t agree with everything you’ve written I think the quality of your work speaks for itself. (I’m sure many would agree.)
Awww Lee, I wasn’t jumping you 🙂 Seems like we’re all seeing little bits and responding before fully understanding what’s being said (just like Nathan mentioned).
Obv her marketing guy & she have different viewpoints on what *success* means to them, individually, and what either of them would be willing to do to get there.
All’s well brother, no disrespect intended or taken! It’s a healthy discussion 🙂 Having said that, I’ve got a headache from reading this entire post and 120+ comments so I’m going to slowly back away, close the door and gorge on some Nutella. Mmmmm!!
@TiaSparkles needs her sparkles back.
Agreed, Nathan! “What matters is being happy and having happy customers … avoiding marketing isn’t a proper solution to what we’re talking about here.”
And part of being happy (for me, anyway) includes making a nice living doing what I love. (For the record, it’s been six figures for several years.)
I’m thinking there’s a way for us to get our message out and our offers made without irritating those who are tired of hearing about yet another product launch.
It’s really calling for a new kind of marketing approach, in my opinion, and people like Tia (and Lianne – loved your ideas!) who are interested in this topic and engaged in this discussion will lead us to it.
Looking forward to that day already!
In the meantime, for making my own decisions about where to invest time and money, I rely heavily on testimonials and recommendations from those I trust. So when Tia says “go read this post,” I listen. 😉
Couldn’t agree more Jeanette. As I said earlier, I don’t think this is really about stopping the launch process and damning all marketing evilness to hell. It’s about thinking for ourselves and being more creative, adventurous and daring when it comes to marketing and launching full stop. This conversation is so, so valuable…and long overdue I suspect. 🙂
I have some stuff to say on the marketing thing but first, I want to mention something I’ve let slide for a while in this thread. It sucks I have to bring it up and I honestly, I expect I’ll be attacked for it…but here goes….
Nobody seems to care or notice that me and my product Question The Rules was attacked in an unveiled and in my opinion unwarrented fashion by Lianne.
To whit…
Lee,
I’ll admit. I saw that, and definitely see where you’re coming from.
If you read my interview on Navarro’s blog today you’ll see that when Mike and I launched Beyond Blogging, we found ourselves entering a shitstorm of whining not about our product, but the price.
Of course, at the time, it hurt badly, but looking back, I wish I’d have just ignored the haters and kept doing what I was doing.
Anyway, after reading that comment, I immediately went and listened to a few of your calls to see if I could form an opinion on the product. Truth is…I can’t…I’m still not deep enough into it to say what I think overall.
So far though, I really like what I’m hearing, including the curse words 🙂
I guess I can see where both of you are coming from. Part of me says why question the rules if they work? But then…you answer that in the course.
In this case, I think it’s simply a matter of Lianne not being one of your target customers…which is something I wrote about on Copyblogger yesterday. Not everyone is a perfect fit, and there’s no use going for everyone.
You guys obviously did very well, and I’ve yet to hear a bad thing about your course…even from the people that complain about others. That’s a good sign.
I guess what I’m trying to say is:
#1: I’m glad to see a softer side
#2: Don’t worry about haters
#3: As long as your core group is happy, you’re good.
Would I use that punk rock pitch? No, but I use the empire thing, and the macho thing…which has a similar rap.
Lee, with over 150 posts now, I’ve lost track of what all’s been said and don’t remember Lianne’s post at all – sorry you felt that way.
I for one am not having fun with this thread – in fact, it’s given me a headache. With so much food for thought, it feels like something way bigger is going on and it’s exhausting, yet vital to be a part of it.
Please don’t feel attacked, we’re all having a discussion and stating our opinions which can sometimes come across as personal. Whatever’s been said (I don’t have the heart to look for that comment now) I want to say that I’ve followed you for a while on twitter and I like you and what you do.
Thanks for being so open, honest and willing to take bullets. In my eyes that makes you solid. Cheers mate!
Lee, I’m sorry you feel personally attacked, but I also wanted to point out that Jonathan Mead has also used “punk rock” before, I think, and I’ve seen a few others along the way long before QTR came out. And given that many of us have personal relationships and talk to each other frequently, memes and ideas spread among faster than we’re sometimes aware of it.
Let’s look at the entire context of that quote, though:
How many of all of us does that quote fit when we don’t see it as a selective call-out? If we expand our view, it includes everyone one of us who are claiming to offer something remarkable and unique.
The only way anyone can survive this thread without being hurt or unsettled is to not assume that people are talking about them specifically. I also agree with Tia that it’s not a particular fun thread and conversations like this can be incredibly uncomfortable. Questioning the rules individually might be fun, but questioning the rules publicly can create discord, which is exactly why we don’t see more of it in the first place.
I don’t mean for this to be a personal attack, either, but wanted to show why that same statement went “unnoticed” by some of us.
As the host of this conversation, I want to keep reiterating that you are welcome here, Lee.
Lee, I honestly had no idea you had a product with punk rock in the title and was a little shocked to see your comment. I certainly had no intention to attack you. I have never heard of you or your products before this discussion and I can promise you that I was not directing my message at you in particular. I was simply brainstorming a bunch of terms that are somewhat synonymous with anti-establishment, at least in my world they are.
I am oblivious to half the things and people that are being talked about in this thread. However, I was thinking of Chris G’s product when I wrote that line since it seemed to be part of the conversation – and even then it was not intended as an attack on the product, which I haven’t even seen and know next to nothing about. It was a comment on the similarity of marketing methods – and the accompanying fatigue which is the subject of this post.
I hope you can feel better knowing that it wasn’t a personal attack. Congrats on your success.
Well said, Natalie. “It’s about thinking for ourselves and being more creative, adventurous and daring” and that it’s high time for this conversation to take place!
Lee, I don’t know your product, but I LOVE its name! 🙂
Oh Lee, please don’t crawl away! You’ve said so many things so far that I think are spot on. I personally didn’t read Lianne’s reference as an attack on you and Johnny personally, but reading them again I appreciate now why you feel the way you do.
I’m really interested to know something though- who did you create QTR for? Are they the people off the street you mention earlier? Or are they people in the same pond?
PS to Mark – you asked “I’m more wondering why she disagrees with her marketing person” and nailed it when you supposed “it’s not because she’s nervous about dipping her toe in the water,” but guessed it was from “fairly strong guidance and clear reasons for her position.”
Indeed, it’s based on the sentiments Marissa shared so well in this post. It’s simply time to do it better, which I see you as a powerful leader and guide toward! Thanks for that, my friend. 🙂
Late to the party… but I’ve been busy. 🙂 Sister-in-arms Jeannette Maw suggested I read this post and subsequent thread, and I’m glad she did because it mirrors something she and I have been discussing recently.
I, too, have program fatigue. I also have Internet Marketing fatigue.
I believe the world is changing. Sales and marketing strategies founded in 2006 or 2007 are increasingly irrelevant. First, many of those strategies are based on early-adopter buyers, and we are well into the Bell curve of internet users – look at Facebook adoption, for one. Second, there’s a new austerity afoot. Personal savings are up. Fewer people are late paying on their credit cards. Fewer people are willing to put an event, retreat, workshop, e-book on their credit card – either they don’t have any credit left, or they’d rather save that credit for something else.
So, it seems to me, that there are a lot of people using old tactics to chase fewer clients.
Which creates cacophony. And fatigue.
Recently, I asked myself the question I like to ask when fatigued, “What’s the opposite of this?” What’s the opposite of wholesale, big-launch, mass marketing, 1% sales rate, early bird discount, shouting?
Why, it’s whispering.
So that’s what I did.
I created a program that is generating about $20,000. And you’ve never heard about it, and you’ll never see an email about it, and none of the cool kids will RT it.
But the 12 people who I asked, by email, to join this program will benefit amazingly.
See, I asked 12 people I’ve worked with in the past, whose work I know intimately, who need that catalytic spark to move to the next level – I asked them to work with me. And within 6 hours, 9 said yes. And within 12 hours 11 said yes. And within 24 hours all had said yes. I had 100% sales.
If something’s not working with your approach, do yourself a favor – do the opposite. Regardless of what the “experts” say, or what the cool kids say, or any other damn voice. Just try the opposite. And see what happens.
I don’t know Michelle…I mean I really like what you’ve done, but at the same time, I can’t imagine sending individual emails like that.
It seems like a lot of pressure to put on someone, no?
I’ve done something similar at the end of my consulting calls and when someone emails me asking for help.
You must be doing something right to get 100% conversion!
Each email was sent BCC so know one knew who was included, and I made it clear that joining or not joining was totally up to them – no harm, no foul if they decided not to participate.
I made it safe for them to decide.
And the proof is in the pudding, as the fellow below writes, in that all 12 people are thriving, growing, deciding on their approach, supporting one another, learning, loving. That’s a great metric.
Dang Michelle! I love your sales strategy: carefully crafted service with the client in mind – coming from a place of absolute authenticity -VERY cool.
Whisper? Sounds like a heart connection to me – resonating like a deep bass drum.
Also – the reverse concept is great – I learned a slight variation of it as LOAGS (reverse goals):
Set your goal, then come up with strategies to do its opposite.
So if you wanted to add 200 subscribers, the opposite is “what do I need to do to alienate 200 subscribers?”
Once you have THAT list (and boy is it fun to do, and I bet the mass email marketing strategies would be high up there), then you look at the opposite of those strategies – and some new innovative ideas might pop up – like Michelle’s whispering idea.
Love this discussion – just found some very cool people – thanks Tia for the intro 🙂
I was one of the people Michele whispered to and I’ve never said yes so fast in my life. I felt ZERO pressure – just the opposite. It was a privilege to be on her list. I know that she understands what I need right now and I was honored that she considered me for her program.
Did I accept because I was flattered? No. Michele doesn’t flatter. She supports but she doesn’t flatter.
Could whispering be manipulated? Sure.
But I know Michele well and trust her. She (and I!) had invested the time into building a valuable relationship. Knowing that she had probably done that with the other people that she invited made it very easy for me to want to be part of her group.
It is a joy to pay people who deliver. In this case Michele didn’t just deliver her own impressive skills; she delivered a community.
Compliments to Marissa on a wonderful guest post, and to a slew of commenters that have been saying a lot of what I’ve been thinking. It always makes me feel better that I’m not the only one thinking that emperor’s robe looks a little drafty from here…
I come from a background of developing content that teaches people to do something — specifically, to give them some kind of technical skill like using software, running a machine, selling widgets, or assassinating a foreign dictator. Us “training types” don’t think too much about “launches” of content. We get it done, we make it available, and it sells or it doesn’t. Often what we’re creating is for a specific market or customer, and we’re paid before we ever set fingers to keyboard.
Our metric for success has nothing to do with how many copies we sell, or how many affiliates we can get to promote us, or whether the “big kids” let us sit at their table. Our single, shining measurement of success is did people learn anything that improved their performance?
Did they sell more widgets?
Did their database run faster?
Did the drill press have more up-time?
Did the dictator stay really, really dead?
We don’t much care if the people were “happy” during the learning, or if they thought they’d be able to do more because of it. Just paying attention to someone usually makes them feel better, and if you slip $100 out of my wallet for your book I’m probably going to claim it helped — otherwise I’m an idiot. The proof is in the smoothly textured dessert product.
How many of you “content creators” actually measure whether the products you’re providing actually provide meaningful value to the folks who give you money? And if you do, can you describe your measurement process?
Assessment is the most difficult part of training. It costs money, takes time, and is very hard to do correctly.
That’s why it hardly ever happens.
Note: I haven’t read any of the comments yet.
Personally I just ignore launches entirely, in all industries, to the best of my cynical consumer abilities. 🙂 As soon as I can detect something is being sold with hype, I just wait until there are some critical reviews so I can get some perspective. The “information product” industry is pretty much the only market in which new things are cheaper, so I generally just avoid info products entirely nowadays, having purchased enough overpriced, overhyped crap for a lifetime. I just assume “information product,” “ebook” etc. (especially if the price ends in a “7”) basically means “scam” unless proven otherwise. In every other market, I can always wait until later and it will be cheaper and better (for example 2nd gen iPhone).
I think this is a prediction of the future (and the future is now in “information products/marketing”–have you seen the Salty Droid’s blog yet?) Consumers will become more and more jaded until they simply stop paying attention altogether, making marketers/scammers try both louder/more obnoxious interruption ads and seedier/subtler manipulations of social networks.
The real key to me is to solve the problem at the level of global Capitalism, specifically by changing currency to permanently bar usury (interest). In the mean time, as an ethical small businessperson, avoid “internet marketing” courses and simply try your best to sell legit products honestly at a fair price (but don’t quit your day job). You’ll save $1000’s of dollars on BS scams and put lots more time into actually doing business instead of fantasizing about get rich/lifestyle quick.
Hype sells more products in the way that amphetamines help you get more done. A little coffee once in a while may be OK, but snort some Adderall (or worse) and you’re asking for trouble.
Nice connection between launch fatigue and minimalism–very similar to our obese culture’s obsession with diets when the problem is something else structural.
Consumers will continue to be jaded as long as there is something to be jaded about–broken promises, hype, BS, and outright lies. If we can be honest and sincere, perhaps abused and jaded consumers will be willing to trust (after a long period of cynicism) and we can make a dent in the hype machine that is global capitalism. But the temptation and pressure to bend this trust just this time can quickly become a slippery slope.
Is it possible to set an ignore feature on Duff’s comments? Anti-capitalism much?
Got Duff fatigue?
Um – yeah. ;p
Have you explained your stance on capitalism on BG yet? I keep reading snippets about why it’s a problem, but without a substantial argument/manifesto/thought piece, it’s hard to understand your comments.
p.s. I’m an entrepreneur.
Duff is a prime example of the sort of uber-negative critic who will try to get inside your head and end up costing you a fortune. Absolute mind-poison and in such large doses.
Duff – you’re blabbing a lot about ‘ethics’ as a sort of guilt cudgel…explain what’s unethical about marketing.
Even your BS about Frank Kern and the FTC – what exactly did he do wrong? I looked into and didn’t see anything that bothered me – please provide a cite, some proof and an explanation.
Duff, you are what the kids refer to as ‘a hater’ and it’s obviously all ego driven. (Got it – you’re the ethics police. Got it, now explain it.)
No idea who you are but you did an ace job of repping everything I don’t like about this thread and none of the good stuff.
For the record, I think that both Duff and his blogging cohort Eric Schiller have at times been hard to understand because they haven’t taken the time to fully explain their positions in different contexts.
And, they are saying something incredibly important that deserves to be listened to.
Our economy is incredibly dysfunctional. The systems and cultures that we live in affect our beliefs and actions in extremely powerful and negative ways. It’s like the tide- no matter how strong a swimmer someone is, the tide will still sweep them along.
Capitalism, which I distinguish from small business/artisan-sized marketplace trading, has been a system that has externalized costs, and concentrated profits into the hands of the very few, at the expense of our environments (Gulf of Mexico, anyone?), our health (ever seen SuperSize It or King Corn?), our sanity (the overprescription of anti-depressants because of the inhuman choices people are given to make a living- why has Escape from Cubicle Nation done so well?), our families…
Although Duff and I have had our disagreements, he has done an extraordinary job of citing and giving links and proofs on his blog.
The one thing I would ask of of you Duff is just to modify your delivery technique depending on the audience- there are many people in these circles who would be open to what your saying, and agree with you.
The political analysis isn’t easy or simple, and sometimes what comes out sounds like insane rantings without context.
But this isn’t all about individual choice, doing something awesome, etc… A part of the solution is understanding the bigger picture, the systems we exist within, and picking a path of healing through them.
The choices aren’t easy. We have a single car (1980’s Volvo, nothing fancy), even though my heart aches every time I put more gas in it.
But with twin toddlers, and living in a culture where some things are just farther away than it’s practical to bicycle or walk, especially in weather, this is a compromise we’ve made. I don’t choose to live like the Amish, but I do try to weigh my choices carefully.
Some of the same choices are presented to us in doing business in these circles. Duff is right, if you are unaware of how human psychology works, what looks like “effective launching” can be, without you realizing it, psychological manipulation. I know we’ve fallen into that and used it at times without evil intent- but it still happens.
There are real problems in this world, and real struggles, and real systemic issues. I have a lot of grief in my heart for the state of the world, and am trying to do my part to repair it. I can no longer respond from anger as I did in my punk rock youth because it’s too exhausting, and too ineffective in reaching anyone but the choir.
But real change is needed. For me, that means engaging in love, understanding the systems and interrelationships, and making the best choice I can make in each moment as is available to me.
I fall down, we all do. We’re imperfect.
But listen. The world is crying. Waking up is an urgent need if we’re going to have a prayer of surviving the next century.
Mark said it in a less “insane ranting” way. 🙂
I tried. 🙂
One more thing- as someone who grew up in punk rock, going to “Rock Against Reagan” shows in D.C. (that dates me), and doing the straight edge punk thing, the political commentary in punk rock was one of the things I loved best about it.
To bring thoughtful, though at times emotional, critique to the system is healthy for all of us. This conversation about launch fatigue is healthy- but in my mind it becomes even more valuable when seen in the larger political/economic context.
Call me whatever you’d like, Lee. I never said marketing itself was unethical, by the way.
Here’s the FTC docs where Irwin F. Kern was sued by the FTC in 2003 for $634,222.45 for running an illegal chain marketing scheme:
http://www.ftc.gov/os/caselist/dojsweep/031014k4globalstp.pdf
http://www.ftc.gov/os/2003/05/k4globalcmp.pdf
Also the Salty Droid’s style of satire is quite extreme at times, but he does have a way with words:
http://saltydroid.info/category/frank-kern/
I have no desire to explain myself further to someone who isn’t listening.
Get rich quick schemes are never sustainable business strategies.
Don’t you just love a good thunderstorm?
Under the dark skies of a real sudden thunderstorm when I was 15, my best friend and I got into an outright brawl while we were working at a summer camp. (Yep – I said it.) We’d been around each other for six years at the time, helped each other cope with parents’ divorces, deaths, and illnesses, and here we were duking it out over something I can’t even remember today.
After our fight, we cooled off in our own separate brewing grounds and “somehow” found each other down in Aquatics. We had work and fun to get back to. Fifteen years later, we still talk to each other.
May was a perfect storm that set the backdrop for this particular scene, and if you follow the trackbacks to this post, you’ll see that there are new blooms following this particular storm. It seems that what needed to be said and read has been said and read, so I’m going to close the comments.
Those of us that need to find each other will. Those who won’t, won’t. But it’s time to get back to work and fun.
I wrote How to Swim Through A Sea of Social Troubles Without Drowning largely in response to a lot of the backchannel conversations that I’ve had with people about the commentary of this particular post. If you’ve made it this far, please go check it out; you wouldn’t be the first person to be unsettled by this, and that’s okay.
Treat each other well and take care of your people. The rest will work itself out.